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Guardiola to be found out in the premier league

HongKongToffee said:
He only brought through Busquetsand Pedro from the Barca B team,the likes of Xavi Iniesta Puyol Pique Messi were all established in that team and Ronaldinho and Deco were below standards in Rijkaards last 2 seasons,if i'm right the reason they got rid of ronaldinho apart from his unprofessionalism was him a bad influence on a teenage Messi by taking him nightclubbing.

Pep took over a fantastic side in 2008 and only tweaked it by adding Busquets and Pedro,that team also had Henry and Eto'o in their primes.
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No
 

RaleighBlue said:
At least Jose has Porto.

He, at least, was a brilliant manager.
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It is a complete nonsense talking down the manager of the club side that many would say were close to, if not the, best to ever play the game. His first two seasons with that Barça side I had never seen anything like it before, and I've seen nothing close to it since. So much revisionism has gone on since then it's ridículous.

I watched that Rijkaard team from the 2006 Champions League win to the final league game in 2008 under him...I'd say I saw close to every game. What went before in those two seasons and what came after were light years apart. The change was incredible. He stepped up from the B team and in one season won everything, using two youth team players as key components when they weren't even being tipped to make it by most in the club. He took the then still growing talent in Messi, switched his role and bam you have the unbelievable goal machine still seen today. I loved Xavi and Iniesta through their time at the club but theirs and Messi's reputation benefited as much from Guardiola's input as he has from theirs.

He also did all this by making them demand the ball all the time and taking the game to the opposition constantly. Risk taking attacking football. Christ you'd think every manager that goes to a top club with a number of top players would win trophies every time if it was that easy.

He may have tinkered too much with what he created after those first two seasons to bore some people with the slower versión of tikitaka and then taken two pretty easy jobs, but that has no relevance to his achievements over his first two season as a first team manager. Nobody would have predicted what was to come with that side. Nobody. I'm a fan and I had no clue as to how great the potential of that team was. It wasn't apparent in two years of games before he took over, not in the slightest.

I'm sorry but it's completely dumb and just pure revisionism to talk that achievement down.

...not all aimed at you RB. Just a rant at this in general. I'm bored in work on my last day before jetting off on hols for two weeks.
 
Kendall's Dream said:
Don't get the hate. He's a brilliant manager and that's why he only manages big/rich teams, because they hire the best.
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He has a superb CV, no doubt. But the issue is that the PL is far more competetive than the Spanish or German leagues. Not better, but no gimmies like over there.

The fascination is how he deals with that. And having racked up his worst ever run of results as a manager, after, what, 2 months in England, be fun to see how he pans out.
 
roydo said:
He has a superb CV, no doubt. But the issue is that the PL is far more competetive than the Spanish or German leagues. Not better, but no gimmies like over there.

The fascination is how he deals with that. And having racked up his worst ever run of results as a manager, after, what, 2 months in England, be fun to see how he pans out.
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Definitely more competitive this league and it'll be good to watch over the next few months

Went the city game the other week and although we got a point I thought they played great, the movement and passing their players were doing (I know city have spent millions) only a few months into Guardiola's reign was amazing.

Think they're going to piss the league when they get back on form - starting tomorrow coz I've got them on my coupon!
 

Im going to go full circle on Pep, i thought he would struggle in the PL. However ive been really impressed with what he is doing at City and think he will nail it there, he reminds me a bit of Wenger in the early days and i admire the way he sticks to his own footballing principals. Yopu need that level of charicter to be a great footballing manager.

I realise im saying that and he hasnt one in six of seven games. But he will do very very well.
 
roydo said:
He has a superb CV, no doubt. But the issue is that the PL is far more competetive than the Spanish or German leagues. Not better, but no gimmies like over there.
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In Spain bottom half teams are regularly turned over by the likes of Barca and Real by results that are bordering on cricket scores.

Over here, even teams in the relegation zone can more than occasionally cause upsets against top sides and there's very few full-on tonkings.

I doubt Pep has had to prepare his previous team on a weekly basis to actually have to challenge and win a game; the certainty has gone.

I almost expect an element of the ol-Martinez mentality of just saying "things will be okay, don't worry" instead of having to adapt and challenge.

As the situation is pretty much alien to him as a manager. West Brom away today will be another game of teams simply shackling his team!
 
Neiler said:
Im going to go full circle on Pep, i thought he would struggle in the PL. However ive been really impressed with what he is doing at City and think he will nail it there, he reminds me a bit of Wenger in the early days and i admire the way he sticks to his own footballing principals. Yopu need that level of charicter to be a great footballing manager.

I realise im saying that and he hasnt one in six of seven games. But he will do very very well.
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I think he'll have an uphill task persuading City supporters and the media that what he's doing is worthwhile. Already you can hear the scorns of derision about "possession". He'll get the same treatment to that meted out to Martinez here. When it's all going right, he's the cats's pyjamas; when the results go west, he's an idealist and playing 'crab football'.

Welcome to the savagery of the English Premier League 'entertainment' industry Pep, this is the real start of your journey here.
 

PhilM said:
In Spain bottom half teams are regularly turned over by the likes of Barca and Real by results that are bordering on cricket scores.

Over here, even teams in the relegation zone can more than occasionally cause upsets against top sides and there's very few full-on tonkings.

I doubt Pep has had to prepare his previous team on a weekly basis to actually have to challenge and win a game; the certainty has gone.

I almost expect an element of the ol-Martinez mentality of just saying "things will be okay, don't worry" instead of having to adapt and challenge.

As the situation is pretty much alien to him as a manager. West Brom away today will be another game of teams simply shackling his team!
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As usual this argument doesn't take into account that the top teams in Spain are a good few levels above the top teams in England, especially when it comes to attacking.

Isn't the success in Europe overall of teams from the top to the middle of the Spanish league in comparison to the English league somewhat indicative of a strength in depth of a league?

That Madrid, Atleti or Barça with some of the players in the world batter Granada or other teams does not, as some people seem to think, prove that the same Granada team would not be able to get results against a good number of Prem League teams.

Too much of these arguments are laden with bias and not thought through. Then again, this is football, so thats the norm.

The tonkings are almost always by those three clubs, but at the same time those three are greatly outperforming the top english teams in Europe so you should also expect comparatively better results against lower teams in their league, no? To say there are no surprise wins or draws is not true. I'm a season ticket holder at Camp Nou and have seen a few and watch the majority of the games over each weekend. I wouldnt watch half as much if it was as weak as some seem to think.

Although, and I'd just be guessing here, I do think there is still more upsets in the Prem League. One argument to explain that would be a smaller gap in general tactics and technique from top to bottom.

It's not an argument that can be decided one way or the other as you wont be seeing Barça in the Prem League or Man City in La Liga.....but the argument could def be a bit more informed.
 
PhilM said:
In Spain bottom half teams are regularly turned over by the likes of Barca and Real by results that are bordering on cricket scores.

Over here, even teams in the relegation zone can more than occasionally cause upsets against top sides and there's very few full-on tonkings.

I doubt Pep has had to prepare his previous team on a weekly basis to actually have to challenge and win a game; the certainty has gone.

I almost expect an element of the ol-Martinez mentality of just saying "things will be okay, don't worry" instead of having to adapt and challenge.

As the situation is pretty much alien to him as a manager. West Brom away today will be another game of teams simply shackling his team!
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I think I was probably just arguing against something you werent even saying....but its a general point id like to make anyways!
 

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