Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Joey66]

It's already well documented what Corbyn stands for. He is an avowed Marxist and believes in nationalisation and rebalancing the tax system by robbing the rich to feed the poor.

Which is all well and good, in a student union debate, but in reality taxing business heavily and giving free money to the poor from it isn't a reliable tax system. This is what is meant by the left playing fast and loose with an economy - the shortfall comes from the public money to prop up the socialist aims, which inevitably screws the country in the long term.

His chancellor ex finance minister of the GLC with red ken abolished for over spending!

 

[roydo]

to help working class people

I know this will sound odd, but the inference is that only a Labour party are arsed about folk lower down the income scale. (I dont subscribe to the sepia coated view of a small army of blokes in cloth caps going to work in 2016)

Like I am a working bloke. Deliver parcels ffs. But used to be a blue collar slave to the wage.

Tax rates are low, nil rate band is higher than ever, employment rates are pretty decent.

Everyone I see on "Working Class" estates seem to spend a few bob on the internet, all seem to have pretty decent phones and shiz. Mrs R works in the local GP practice, and that seems to function pretty well.

Life aint perfect, sure, but the battles Labour took on after WW1 have been well and truly won by them. Rightly so. But maybe the wrongs they see in society, actually, are not as worrying to the "working class" folk they are seeking to represent?

Just musing really.

 

[peteblue]

Nah this isn't exactly fair... You've got to understand that the failure of Labour has been gradual since the days of Blair. I can understand people supporting Brown and sort of understand Milliband, as there was no seismic event that displayed that the arse had gone out of Labour. There was always an undercurrent of hope.

Difference is now is that Labour with Corbyn have well and truly fell off a cliff. It's easy to look back in retrospect and see how it happened, and maybe you saw it coming (I saw it with Milliband, but I thought after he was trounced Labour would revert to the centre rather than extreme left...), but it was by no means so obvious as to call it "subservience" for not noticing it.

Subservience may have been the wrong word, but uncritical support definitely sums it up. I make my comments not in retrospect but as I called them at the time, Brown was always a bully and missed his chance when he bottled calling an election.....Milliband was always going to be a failure, he wasn't even the best candidate in his family and his campaign with the Ed'stone was a shambles....Corbyn was a joke candidate and those MP's that originally put forward his name should be thoroughly ashamed.......

 

[LEONARD]

All of this goes back, to picking the WRONG Miliband brother.

 

[roydo]

All of this goes back, to picking the WRONG Miliband brother.

Yep.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I know this will sound odd, but the inference is that only a Labour party are arsed about folk lower down the income scale. (I dont subscribe to the sepia coated view of a small army of blokes in cloth caps going to work in 2016)

Like I am a working bloke. Deliver parcels ffs. But used to be a blue collar slave to the wage.

Tax rates are low, nil rate band is higher than ever, employment rates are pretty decent.

Everyone I see on "Working Class" estates seem to spend a few bob on the internet, all seem to have pretty decent phones and shiz. Mrs R works in the local GP practice, and that seems to function pretty well.

Life aint perfect, sure, but the battles Labour took on after WW1 have been well and truly won by them. Rightly so. But maybe the wrongs they see in society, actually, are not as worrying to the "working class" folk they are seeking to represent?

Just musing really.

A centre left labour government would and should help everyone, a far left labour government (esp. JC's one) however would not. That's just my opinion on the matter.

 

[roydo]

A centre left labour government would and should help everyone, a far left labour government (esp. JC's one) however would not. That's just my opinion on the matter.

Kind of agree.

 

[peteblue]

All of this goes back, to picking the WRONG Miliband brother.

Well, I contend just before him, but yes definitely putting that weak chinned idiot in charge......

 

[The Esk]

I know this will sound odd, but the inference is that only a Labour party are arsed about folk lower down the income scale. (I dont subscribe to the sepia coated view of a small army of blokes in cloth caps going to work in 2016)

Like I am a working bloke. Deliver parcels ffs. But used to be a blue collar slave to the wage.

Tax rates are low, nil rate band is higher than ever, employment rates are pretty decent.

Everyone I see on "Working Class" estates seem to spend a few bob on the internet, all seem to have pretty decent phones and shiz. Mrs R works in the local GP practice, and that seems to function pretty well.

Life aint perfect, sure, but the battles Labour took on after WW1 have been well and truly won by them. Rightly so. But maybe the wrongs they see in society, actually, are not as worrying to the "working class" folk they are seeking to represent?

Just musing really.

Interesting observations mate, yet at the same time hospital waiting lists are growing longer, local authority services including housing and social care are a near busted flush, education is suffering and food bank usage continues to grow exponentially.

 

[peteblue]

I know this will sound odd, but the inference is that only a Labour party are arsed about folk lower down the income scale. (I dont subscribe to the sepia coated view of a small army of blokes in cloth caps going to work in 2016)

Like I am a working bloke. Deliver parcels ffs. But used to be a blue collar slave to the wage.

Tax rates are low, nil rate band is higher than ever, employment rates are pretty decent.

Everyone I see on "Working Class" estates seem to spend a few bob on the internet, all seem to have pretty decent phones and shiz. Mrs R works in the local GP practice, and that seems to function pretty well.

Life aint perfect, sure, but the battles Labour took on after WW1 have been well and truly won by them. Rightly so. But maybe the wrongs they see in society, actually, are not as worrying to the "working class" folk they are seeking to represent?

Just musing really.

This is a key point Roydo. Get the country to do well and everyone benefits. The days of union representation required to stop people being killed in the mills and having to live on tuppence a week are well gone. Now we need to make sure that workers on the lower wages are protected and have almost no tax to pay, that services from the NHS etc can be afforded and that business is allowed to grow and prosper to pay for it all........a modern mindset is required......

 

[peteblue]

Interesting observations mate, yet at the same time hospital waiting lists are growing longer, local authority services including housing and social care are a near busted flush, education is suffering and food bank usage continues to grow exponentially.

So is the solution Jeremy Corbyn, or was it Ed Miliband.......you do remember the financial crisis that we've been fighting our way out of. Come on Esk, put the red glasses away and tell us who will fix these ills......

 

[roydo]

Interesting observations mate, yet at the same time hospital waiting lists are growing longer, local authority services including housing and social care are a near busted flush, education is suffering and food bank usage continues to grow exponentially.

Like I said, musing really.

But my views on NHS; it is well funded, trouble is, the baby boomers are coming home to roost. Ditto, social care. And the NHS are dreadful at spending money. And some NHS trusts are mired in PFI repayments.

Housing has been a bug bear of mine for ages. Parties of all colour have feasted on the faux illusion of "wealth" that home owners feel. Me included.

Maybe I am incredibly lucky to live where I do, but comprehensive education in North Somerset is miles away from suffering. Every school in the county get great OFSTED reports, and seem to churn out educated, decent, young adults. Not everyone is perfect mind. Granted, it aint exactly an inner city ghetto down here, but my mantra on state schools has been consistent for ever on here. Make them as good as the Grammars and Public ones.

 

[The Esk]

So is the solution Jeremy Corbyn, or was it Ed Miliband.......you do remember the financial crisis that we've been fighting our way out of. Come on Esk, put the red glasses away and tell us who will fix these ills......

Well it's certainly not austerity despite the claims of the media.

We've had huge cuts to local authority spending (largely political and easier to get away with than education or health).

On the flip side we've had continued monetary expansion (quantitative easing) which has kept the banks afloat and allowed them to support the economy in a minimal fashion plus a huge injection of cash post the referendum from the BoE. However that is not classic Conservative policy as you very well know. In fact it was Gordon Brown who put together the banking rescue package and was the first to turn to QE, subsequently copied by all other leading economies and continued by the Conservatives.

The solution is further investment by Government not just through the banks but through direct investment in infrastructure programmes in order to stimulate growth to increase the overall tax take. You cannot cut your way out of an economy running a defecit you must grow your way out of it.

Frankly Ed would have done a better job than the current incumbents, however there were more suitable candidates (his brother for one) who never got the opportunity.

 

[roydo]

The solution is further investment by Government not just through the banks but through direct investment in infrastructure programmes in order to stimulate growth to increase the overall tax take. You cannot cut your way out of an economy running a defecit you must grow your way out of it.

Deffo. As well as QE, which has its critics, Brown bought forward a bundle of government infrastructure spending when it all went a bit wonky.

 

[peteblue]

Well it's certainly not austerity despite the claims of the media.

We've had huge cuts to local authority spending (largely political and easier to get away with than education or health).

On the flip side we've had continued monetary expansion (quantitative easing) which has kept the banks afloat and allowed them to support the economy in a minimal fashion plus a huge injection of cash post the referendum from the BoE. However that is not classic Conservative policy as you very well know. In fact it was Gordon Brown who put together the banking rescue package and was the first to turn to QE, subsequently copied by all other leading economies.

The solution is further investment by Government not just through the banks but through direct investment in infrastructure programmes in order to stimulate growth to increase the overall tax take. You cannot cut your way out of an economy running a defecit you must grow your way out of it.

Frankly Ed would have done a better job than the current incumbents, however there were more suitable candidates (his brother for one) who never got the opportunity.

Indeed we need investment, the 'austerity' myth was to keep the markets off our backs and make it look as though we were actually doing something. But what investment is the question. Your assertion that Ed Miliband would have done a better job is based on what, a failed campaign ? Exactly what skills did he demonstrate. Even now you try to defend him and cannot see the damage that the man did to the party. This is why I say that those such as yourself, who see no failure in Labour leadership, are the architects and supporters of the shambles that the party has become........