Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Toffeelover]

This is a key point Roydo. Get the country to do well and everyone benefits. The days of union representation required to stop people being killed in the mills and having to live on tuppence a week are well gone. Now we need to make sure that workers on the lower wages are protected and have almost no tax to pay, that services from the NHS etc can be afforded and that business is allowed to grow and prosper to pay for it all........a modern mindset is required......

Think Unions now are too politically orientated and have lost sight of their primary purpose.

 

[roydo]

Think Unions now are too politically orientated and have lost sight of their primary purpose.

They have won their primary battles. By and large.

 

[peteblue]

Deffo. As well as QE, which has its critics, Brown bought forward a bundle of government infrastructure spending when it all went a bit wonky.

He also screwed up the pensions of millions of company employees.......workers....

 

[The Esk]

Indeed we need investment, the 'austerity' myth was to keep the markets off our backs and make it look as though we were actually doing something. But what investment is the question. Your assertion that Ed Miliband would have done a better job is based on what, a failed campaign ? Exactly what skills did he demonstrate. Even now you try to defend him and cannot see the damage that the man did to the party. This is why I say that those such as yourself, who see no failure in Labour leadership, are the architects and supporters of the shambles that the party has become........

I said earlier that the performance of the Labour Party at the time of the 2015 GE election disillusioned me to party politics in a big way, I explained the reasons why. However, given the Labour Party for all its failings represent the best hope for the sick, the poor, for those needing social care and for children in our schools I will always support them at the ballot box until something better comes along for the most needy.

There is no alternative in British politics if you want to elect a Government with the best policies to support the needy.

 

[Toffeelover]

Interesting observations mate, yet at the same time hospital waiting lists are growing longer, local authority services including housing and social care are a near busted flush, education is suffering and food bank usage continues to grow exponentially.

Good statement but you stop expounding. So here is your chance.

Why do you propose should be done?

 

[peteblue]

I said earlier that the performance of the Labour Party at the time of the 2015 GE election disillusioned me to party politics in a big way, I explained the reasons why. However, given the Labour Party for all its failings represent the best hope for the sick, the poor, for those needing social care and for children in our schools I will always support them at the ballot box until something better comes along for the most needy.

There is no alternative in British politics if you want to elect a Government with the best policies to support the needy.

But there is and blindly supporting a failing group is madness......if you had a man in to fix your gas boiler and he consistently cocked it up while spouting platitudes about the sick, you would get shut of him and find someone competent..........

 

[rascal]

Today at Labour Conference
9:46am: Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to “reflect“.

9:56am: Corbyn says he backs war crimes investigations into British troops.

10:00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6.

10:22am: McDonnell defends calling Esther McVey “a stain on humanity”.

10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise.

11:06am: McDonnell doubles down, says “yes I do” think they were the right words.

11:15pm: Derek Hatton spotted in the conference hall.

11:52am: Ken Livingstone talks about Hitler on the BBC.

1:42am: Delegate rants about “Jewish MPs” and “Jewish plot to oust Corbyn”.

1:50pm: Fringe speaker compares Tory welfare policy to Nazis’ Arbeit Macht Frei.

5:00pm: Momentum host speaker who called for a Jewish man’s throat to be cut.

5:25pm: Anti-war merchandise mocking injured British soldiers on sale.

6:00pm: Jackie Walker says anti-Semitism in Labour is “exaggerated“.

6:30pm: Leaflets circulated: “Jewish Labour Movement does not belong in Labour”.

 

[The Esk]

Good statement but you stop expounding. So here is your chance.

Why do you propose should be done?

1. Further increased investment in healthcare, social care and other local authority run services but with modern management structures, managed at local level (not Whitehall) whilst retaining public ownership, to increase efficiency. Remove capital constraints on local authorities
2. Invest heavily in tax evasion detection and simplify the corporate tax rules ensuring profits generated in the UK are taxed in the UK at UK rates
3. Provide incentives for industry to invest heavily in apprenticeships, adult training and retraining
4. Scrap Trident
5. Given the electorate have determined Brexit, act immediately to maintain our single market membership, even at the expense of freedom of movement.
6. Set up a national investment bank aimed at providing capital for businesses and particularly capital for publicly owned low cost social housing.

 

[Toffeelover]

Grammar schools are not the be all and all. Jeremy went to one and finished with two levels at grade E. Now that is an utter failure, wonDer what he actually did there, must have had a lot of sparetime!

 

[peteblue]

Think Unions now are too politically orientated and have lost sight of their primary purpose.

Times have moved on, some of the unions haven't.......

 

[peteblue]

The day he says that he backs war crimes investigations into the IRA is the day I start to take him seriously......

 

[Toffeelover]

1. Further increased investment in healthcare, social care and other local authority run services but with modern management structures, managed at local level (not Whitehall) whilst retaining public ownership, to increase efficiency. Remove capital constraints on local authoirites
2. Invest heavily in tax evasion detection and simplify the corporate tax rules ensuring profits generated in the UK are taxed in the UK at UK rates
3. Provide incentives for industry to invest heavily in apprenticeships, adult training and retraining
4. Scrap Trident
5. Given the electorate have determined Brexit, act immediately to maintain our single market membership, even at the expense of freedom of movement.
6. Set up a national investment bank aimed at providing capital for businesses and particularly capital for publicly owned low cost social housing.

Cheers ESK but cannot agree on Trident thousands of jobs in a very poor area really depend on that and there is no alternative.

 

[Rob17896]

Good statement but you stop expounding. So here is your chance.

Why do you propose should be done?

There is no simple answer. To create a fair society we need a change of attitude. More Scandinavian, less American.
Fair taxation
Responsible business
A government with the balls to stop a company not paying up trading in this country. It only needs one example.
An understanding that we need great business and it is not the enemy and the key to a wealthy population.
In the UK we have sides. Corbyn has never mentioned what he would do to help business. Blair and Cameron never tackled fair taxation or tax avoidance. We need a society where gross greed and deliberate idleness are equally unnacceptable. The Unions of the seventies never again, likewise the BHS fiasco and financial crisis need to be tackled by government in the courts.

 

[Toffeelover]

The subject of CT in my opinion is rather awkward at the moment. Many businesses in manufacturing and banking have expressed unease over leaving the EU. If CT is raised to a higher level this could be the catalyst for them to relocate to Europe. Bear in mind Brexit has not started yet, the fall out good or bad is yet to be realised.

 

[catcherintherye]

They proved it in May 2015 the current Labour MPs why should they go independent being bullied ?
By people who payed £3.00 under ED Millabands leadership rule alteration what a plonker he was yes that headstone guy is the burial of the Labour Party how we knew it ?

I'll be honest I am not entirely sold on the idea that MP's who tend to be millionaires, with lots of support and second homes etc are really bullied by party voters and supporters. In the main they are held to account and increasingly they don't like that. That is reasonable, its never nice to be held to account but I'm not sure that's bullying.

They shouldn't have to go Independent though. What they do is up to them and I'm not really a fan of de-selection. I only commented on what I would do. If I worked for someone and felt a decision they took was so awful I wouldn't try to put it into action then rather than spending my life moaning about it I would leave and put my ideas to the test.

Likewise if I was an MP and thought the decision my party had taken was so awful we wouldn't win any votes I would prove this by standing as an independent and putting my ideas to the test.

Ed Miliband opposed the 3 pound fees mate. The Labour right (Blairite right) insisted upon it against his wishes. They naively felt that the majority of people outside of Labour are to the right of them. What they've found is that most seem to be to the left.

As for the 3 quid thing, nobody paid 3 quid got a vote at this election. It was 25 quid. I can only comment for myself but I've been paying much higher subs that that for some time now. Either way Corbyn has won in every category, 25 pound sign up,s 3 pound sign ups, members and trade union affiliates. It's just not true to say 3 pound sign ups swung it. Corbyn was the most popular candidate amongst every category.