Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[davek]

seriously tho' mate, another Labour loss and it'll be a win-at-all-costs attitude next round. Blair's already positioning himself, playing the long game under the assumption Corbyn will lose.

More chance of finding WMD in Ken Livingstone's back garden.

 

[neil999]

Blair more likely to join lib dems than be labour leader again

 

[dholliday]

if you think Blair's brand is too toxic then so was David Miliband.

At the time the party preferred Ed to his brother because of the Blair association of the latter.

But time heals...and forgets.

Like Obama i think Blair was a decent domestic PM, but also like Obama he ruined his rep by his inhumane actions against Arab nations. but most people won't care too much if Blair makes a long-game run for the top.

I can see the narrative now: Britain needs an experienced respected statesman to ease the process of rejoining the EU after the disastrous Brexit.

He'll be 71/72 by the time GN 2025 comes around, so not even too old.

As much as I would like that to happen it won't as like davek says his brand appears to be finished with the party and also with Joe public. (he is treated extremely harshly for a few issues over 10 years as PM in my view as stated in a previous post)

People can hope JC's labour party will win an election but there's more chance you'll see a flock of pigs flying south for winter. The sooner you all start adjusting to new labour policies the better. If rEd militant hadn't put himself forward for leader in 2010, we would have had his brother winning the election last year and we wouldn't be in this sorry mess.

 

[The binman chronicles]

if you think Blair's brand is too toxic then so was David Miliband.

At the time the party preferred Ed to his brother because of the Blair association of the latter.

But time heals...and forgets.

Like Obama i think Blair was a decent domestic PM, but also like Obama he ruined his rep by his inhumane actions against Arab nations. but most people won't care too much if Blair makes a long-game run for the top.

I can see the narrative now: Britain needs an experienced respected statesman to ease the process of rejoining the EU after the disastrous Brexit.

He'll be 71/72 by the time GN 2025 comes around, so not even too old.

David's reputation was good in the labour party, they were just split in half between the Blairites and Brownites. Obviously half the party wanted to move away from what they thought was toxic, which was their prerogative but it was the trade unionists who selected Ed. The general public was pretty much in unison saying they picked the wrong brother so his wider reputation is also good.

They would do well to get him back as leader once the far lefties have had their day. Like I said I would like to see Blair back but the damage has been done so he would cause just as many issues as JC to the party. Also part of Blair's appeal was his youthful exuberance, he won't have that at 70 odd.

Like it or not running for PM is more a personality contest nowadays and the mummies voted for Blair in his day and Cameron recently.

 

[dholliday]

aye...i wonder where the mummy vote goes now? i imagine more Corbyn than May as they instinctively won't like her wearing that new make-up with the strong red lipstick, and Jeremy's so cuddly.

Whereas the granddads are quietly impressed with May's new look.

David's reputation was good in the labour party, they were just split in half between the Blairites and Brownites. Obviously half the party wanted to move away from what they thought was toxic, which was their prerogative but it was the trade unionists who selected Ed. The general public was pretty much in unison saying they picked the wrong brother so his wider reputation is also good.

They would do well to get him back as leader once the far lefties have had their day. Like I said I would like to see Blair back but the damage has been done so he would cause just as many issues as JC to the party. Also part of Blair's appeal was his youthful exuberance, he won't have that at 70 odd.

Like it or not running for PM is more a personality contest nowadays and the mummies voted for Blair in his day and Cameron recently.

 

[chewee]

David's reputation was good in the labour party, they were just split in half between the Blairites and Brownites. Obviously half the party wanted to move away from what they thought was toxic, which was their prerogative but it was the trade unionists who selected Ed. The general public was pretty much in unison saying they picked the wrong brother so his wider reputation is also good.

They would do well to get him back as leader once the far lefties have had their day. Like I said I would like to see Blair back but the damage has been done so he would cause just as many issues as JC to the party. Also part of Blair's appeal was his youthful exuberance, he won't have that at 70 odd.

Like it or not running for PM is more a personality contest nowadays and the mummies voted for Blair in his day and Cameron recently.

The recent YouGov figures for Blair show a worse level of support than Corbyn. He'll never return to frontline politics in the commons, his name is too toxic.

Labour need to constantly remind voters it was the tories that put the EU referendum on the table, half the Tory party campaigned to leave and it will be the Tory Party that negotiates our exit. A Labour win in 2015 would have resulted in no EU referendum.

Whilst it's true now 52% voted out I think further down the line once it all unravels a fair chunk of that number will have regrets. In the short term it may be risky but a solid and sustained position in the long run will put them in a decent position to seriously question Tory economic credibility. A weak £ means import costs will rise significantly - Gas / Oil / Food etc, inflation is bound to creep up at a rate well beyond wage rises, people year on year will get poorer.

It's a risk and yes it questions the wisdom of the 52% and the democratic process but if they are proved to be right it's a massive opening. Given the polls they have nothing to lose, they need to gamble.

 

[The binman chronicles]

The recent YouGov figures for Blair show a worse level of support than Corbyn. He'll never return to frontline politics in the commons, his name is too toxic.

Labour need to constantly remind voters it was the tories that put the EU referendum on the table, half the Tory party campaigned to leave and it will be the Tory Party that negotiates our exit. A Labour win in 2015 would have resulted in no EU referendum.

Whilst it's true now 52% voted out I think further down the line once it all unravels a fair chunk of that number will have regrets. In the short term it may be risky but a solid and sustained position in the long run will put them in a decent position to seriously question Tory economic credibility. A weak £ means import costs will rise significantly - Gas / Oil / Food etc, inflation is bound to creep up at a rate well beyond wage rises, people year on year will get poorer.

It's a risk and yes it questions the wisdom of the 52% and the democratic process but if they are proved to be right it's a massive opening. Given the polls they have nothing to lose, they need to gamble.

Don't disagree with any of that. Just that still won't make much of a difference under JC. (he didn't want the EU anyhow so doesn't seem to be making an issue of it) After the 2020 election, if leaving the EU is still causing problems that's when they could start to gain traction especially if they bring the whole party together with someone more moderate leading.

 

[dholliday]

do you only question the wisdom of the democratic process if you don't like the result?

The recent YouGov figures for Blair show a worse level of support than Corbyn. He'll never return to frontline politics in the commons, his name is too toxic.

Labour need to constantly remind voters it was the tories that put the EU referendum on the table, half the Tory party campaigned to leave and it will be the Tory Party that negotiates our exit. A Labour win in 2015 would have resulted in no EU referendum.

Whilst it's true now 52% voted out I think further down the line once it all unravels a fair chunk of that number will have regrets. In the short term it may be risky but a solid and sustained position in the long run will put them in a decent position to seriously question Tory economic credibility. A weak £ means import costs will rise significantly - Gas / Oil / Food etc, inflation is bound to creep up at a rate well beyond wage rises, people year on year will get poorer.

It's a risk and yes it questions the wisdom of the 52% and the democratic process but if they are proved to be right it's a massive opening. Given the polls they have nothing to lose, they need to gamble.

 

[The binman chronicles]

aye...i wonder where the mummy vote goes now? i imagine more Corbyn than May as they instinctively won't like her wearing that new make-up with the strong red lipstick, and Jeremy's so cuddly.

Whereas the granddads are quietly impressed with May's new look.

Let's hope Boris doesn't take over as leader any time soon, they'll just see a big loveable dulux dog.... what what, woof. Anyone for a spot of whiff whaff?

 

[peteblue]

Blair has gone, he's finished. His ego will never die but his reputation was buried a while ago.......

 

[chewee]

do you only question the wisdom of the democratic process if you don't like the result?

No but I do think further down the line people will find what they thought they were voting for hasn't necessarily came to fruition.

Perceptions change over time. EG A few years ago I voted against AV in the referendum but I'd vote for it now, British politics over the last few years has become far to fragmented for a two party system.

 

[dholliday]

No but I do think further down the line people will find what they thought they were voting for hasn't necessarily came to fruition.

Perceptions change over time. EG A few years ago I voted against AV in the referendum but I'd vote for it now, British politics over the last few years has become far to fragmented for a two party system.

Sure but what you actually wanting to say? Ditch the vote because people may change their minds a few years later?

 

[Joey66]

Just listening to LBC about Corbyns stop the war activist in a rally yesterday he was heckled by syrians for not denouncing the Russia action over there i listened for 1/2 an hour as the presenter asked anyone from stop the war to come on - NIL - he asked any callers to condemn Russia the callers who called in were all english anti west pro Russia callers/
The only ones who came on were people who had come to this country who had been persecuted by Russia -
Corbyn the PM elect stood on a stage pro Russia then ????????????????
Evidently Stop the War who Corbyn used to be the secretary of - they were more concerned about Israel yesterday than Syria?????

 

[peteblue]

Just listening to LBC about Corbyns stop the war activist in a rally yesterday he was heckled by syrians for not denouncing the Russia action over there i listened for 1/2 an hour as the presenter asked anyone from stop the war to come on - NIL - he asked any callers to condemn Russia the callers who called in were all english anti west pro Russia callers/
The only ones who came on were people who had come to this country who had been persecuted by Russia -
Corbyn the PM elect stood on a stage pro Russia then ????????????????
Evidently Stop the War who Corbyn used to be the secretary of - they were more concerned about Israel yesterday than Syria?????

It was ever thus. Getting anyone from the hard left to criticise anything about Russia is an impossibility. If it was about the UK or the USA they'd be complaining by the coach load.........

 

[tsubaki]

Just listening to LBC about Corbyns stop the war activist in a rally yesterday he was heckled by syrians for not denouncing the Russia action over there i listened for 1/2 an hour as the presenter asked anyone from stop the war to come on - NIL - he asked any callers to condemn Russia the callers who called in were all english anti west pro Russia callers/
The only ones who came on were people who had come to this country who had been persecuted by Russia -
Corbyn the PM elect stood on a stage pro Russia then ????????????????
Evidently Stop the War who Corbyn used to be the secretary of - they were more concerned about Israel yesterday than Syria?????

Why would anyone expect an organization called "Stop the War" to back a position that would end up in a war?