Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[mightymoyes]

Only if Corbyn gets in tomorrow.........

no just the tories continuing on the path they've been on

 

[catcherintherye]

With respect Pete, anything I or others from a similar background have achieved were achieved despite Thatcher not because of.

Wilson 64-70, Blair 97-07, and Brown 07-10 without whom we would have been in a much greater mess post the 2008 crash.

Atlee also set in process an organisation of British industry that delivered the biggest and most continual period of growth in the history of capitalism.

Thatcher historic achievement has been to take wealth from a majority of people and allow a tiny number to grow increasingly rich. You can't knock that, it does take skill to be able to do it. There are obvious ethical questions but more importantly it is not sustainable for economic growth. It is in no small part why growth figures have never matched the post war era.

 

[catcherintherye]

Without Maggie we'd still have the union activists running wild with bodies going unburied. I really hope you're not suggesting that Blair or Brown were even in the same league as Thatcher. Both of whom contributed to the biggest overseas disasters and financial crash we'd seen in years........

With all due respect mate, Thatcher herself acknowledged her greatest legacy was Brown and Blair. If ever a statement ever hung both Brown and Blair and specifically for this discourse Thatcher it is that one!

The problem is, most who subscribe to Thatcherite economics have no idea how to explain what is currently happening. They lack the humility to admit they were wrong and trying to deliver what isn't achievable. At least Freidman had the decency to hold his hands up and state his calculations were unworkable.

 

[catcherintherye]

17 point lead. Lets not forget that polls underestimated Tory support by 6% at GE2015. And the Tories will gain another 10-15 seats on Labour with the boundary changes. It will be a complete wipeout.

A lot of polls are showing it to be 7% there will be fluctuations. A lot of there increase can be put down to the collapse in UKIP votes too. We should also bear in mind the 4% additional increase in Tory support has now been factored in to methodological changes in most polling.

That being said the tories have a big polling lead. I predicted as much, most new PM's get a bounce and May appeals to the faithful more than Cameron. Brown had a 12 month bounce and I suspect we will be looking at a similar time frame for May. Labour had got itself to winning in polls (and in elections like London and the Local elections where they were the most popular party) but the MP's sabotaged this to prevent any chance of Corbyn winning a snap election.

I would imagine a strong lead for May, but come brexit turbulence to be hit. I am also quite doubtful there will be a wipe out as people are expecting. In no election post 2015 have Labour been wiped out anywhere, in fact they have grown in support.

 

[Toffeelover]

A lot of polls are showing it to be 7% there will be fluctuations. A lot of there increase can be put down to the collapse in UKIP votes too. We should also bear in mind the 4% additional increase in Tory support has now been factored in to methodological changes in most polling.

That being said the tories have a big polling lead. I predicted as much, most new PM's get a bounce and May appeals to the faithful more than Cameron. Brown had a 12 month bounce and I suspect we will be looking at a similar time frame for May. Labour had got itself to winning in polls (and in elections like London and the Local elections where they were the most popular party) but the MP's sabotaged this to prevent any chance of Corbyn winning a snap election.

I would imagine a strong lead for May, but come brexit turbulence to be hit. I am also quite doubtful there will be a wipe out as people are expecting. In no election post 2015 have Labour been wiped out anywhere, in fact they have grown in support.

Heck, I wish I was as clued up on all this stuff as you, Mate.

 

[1966efc]

Since the last General Election, there have been 105 "Voting Intention" polls. Labour have had small leads in 3 of them. 600 seats up for grabs next time ... I'm still going with a seat score of about 165 for Labour but wouldn't (at the moment) be surprised if it were nearer 150.

 

[Joey66]

I see Shami Shami decries grammar schools yet sends her child to the posh Westminster school, just like Dianne Abbot did
More like do as
I say not as we do it's bad for socialist kids but not ours hypocrites springs to mind!

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

The centrists having a good ol' complain. I'm sorry to say the centre killed itself.

Political movements on the left and right are a reaction to the failure of the centre ground to solve the problems of our day.

 

[hullefc]

Let the fun begin as the Tories tear themselves apart.

Tory MPs clamour for more say as Davis rules out vote on exit terms

 

[chewee]

Really odd few days, Ed Miliband seems to have resumed duties as the leader of the opposition. He's been everywhere pushing the single market policy stance.

 

[tsubaki]

Let the fun begin as the Tories tear themselves apart.

Tory MPs clamour for more say as Davis rules out vote on exit terms

That is just the Tory "modernizers" planting stories to try and make themselves into an internal resistance; for instance Soubry has been in the media every day for the past two weeks bewailing her lot. May should stamp on them as hard as possible, otherwise they will just co-operate with the disappointed in the Labour ranks in order to cause mischief. She can probably do this quite safely, as many of them are useless.

Also (from later on in that article) I do wish someone would tell Ed Miliband that the fact that Remain said "If we leave we will lose access to the single market" means that, as Leave won, they do have a mandate now.

 

[tsubaki]

Really odd few days, Ed Miliband seems to have resumed duties as the leader of the opposition. He's been everywhere pushing the single market policy stance.

Pushing it very badly. What he is saying is nonsensical.

 

[dandydan]

Atlee also set in process an organisation of British industry that delivered the biggest and most continual period of growth in the history of capitalism.

Thatcher historic achievement has been to take wealth from a majority of people and allow a tiny number to grow increasingly rich. You can't knock that, it does take skill to be able to do it. There are obvious ethical questions but more importantly it is not sustainable for economic growth. It is in no small part why growth figures have never matched the post war era.

Atlee nationalising industry and handing it over to the unions is what killed it. Took a while but they got there. Combine it with the welfare state, mass immigration of workers because of an uneccessarily large army keeping an empire that died at the surrender of Singapore and you can place a lot of today's social problems on that governments doorstep.
They of course had to get a loan off the yanks to pay for all this after spunking away the free money given by the Marshall plan.

 

[hullefc]

That is just the Tory "modernizers" planting stories to try and make themselves into an internal resistance; for instance Soubry has been in the media every day for the past two weeks bewailing her lot. May should stamp on them as hard as possible, otherwise they will just co-operate with the disappointed in the Labour ranks in order to cause mischief. She can probably do this quite safely, as many of them are useless.

Also (from later on in that article) I do wish someone would tell Ed Miliband that the fact that Remain said "If we leave we will lose access to the single market" means that, as Leave won, they do have a mandate now.

May can attempt to 'clamp down on them', but she can't actually do anything, which will show her weak leadership, but it will not stop them causing mischief. Europe has always been the Tories Achilles heel and the divisions will continue to surface, with the infighting splitting the Tories. It can only get nasty.

 

[The Esk]

Stephen Phillips MP, a pro-leave Conservative MP wants Parliament to be consulted on the EU leaving terms

He said the Government appeared intent on negotiating “without any regard to the House of Commons” in a way that was “fundamentally undemocratic, unconstitutional and cuts across the rights and privileges of the legislature”.

Phillips said: “I and many others did not exercise our vote in the referendum so as to restore the sovereignty of this parliament only to see what we regarded as the tyranny of the EU replaced by that of a government that apparently wishes to ignore the views of the house on the most important issue facing the nation.”