Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[magicjuan]

All the people in this cabinet are doing are showing that they have more integrity then Jeremy Corbyn ever had. While he sat comfortably in the Blairite government (which I take it you would expect was far for from left wing?!) happily excepting money to be their token socialist and comedy protest vote, he never once threatened to resign. You know why? Because he knew nobody would care if he did, and the only person that would lose out was himself and his own wallet! Basically you want Labour to become a far Left Wing unelectable party, well if you want that I can't understand why you don't just vote for TUSC? It seams like they wou the represent your beliefs much more then the modern Labour party. Corbyn will destroy the Labour party given half the chance, as he's totally unelectable. The only people who would vote for him are his gang of Wolfie Smith left wing activists, and in the process of making them happy he would practically create a one party state for the Conservative's, a truly terrifying prospect of ever there was one!

His wallet. There's a meme dling the rounds highlighting £21m in expenses taken by MPs last year of which £8.95 was claimed by Corbyn.

By trying to attach greed to the list of bad traits belonging to Corbyn you should be called out for chatting absolute uberwham .

Absolute joke of an argument.

 

[hullefc]

All the people in this cabinet are doing are showing that they have more integrity then Jeremy Corbyn ever had. While he sat comfortably in the Blairite government (which I take it you would expect was far for from left wing?!) happily excepting money to be their token socialist and comedy protest vote, he never once threatened to resign. You know why? Because he knew nobody would care if he did, and the only person that would lose out was himself and his own wallet! Basically you want Labour to become a far Left Wing unelectable party, well if you want that I can't understand why you don't just vote for TUSC? It seams like they wou the represent your beliefs much more then the modern Labour party. Corbyn will destroy the Labour party given half the chance, as he's totally unelectable. The only people who would vote for him are his gang of Wolfie Smith left wing activists, and in the process of making them happy he would practically create a one party state for the Conservative's, a truly terrifying prospect of ever there was one!

They are trying to railroad Corbyn to resign before the Chilcott report, that will show those with 'integrity' led the UK into a war on the basis of a big Goebbels lie. Some integrity.

You, as a Labour party member, must be concerned that those in parliament are going against the wishes of Labour party members who overwhelmingly voted for Corbyn? They are out of step with the vast majority in the Labour party, as they were with the majority of the people they represent in their area during the EU vote.

It is them that appear to be un-electable as their constituents gave them a big raspberry with the EU vote.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

His wallet. There's a meme dling the rounds highlighting £21m in expenses taken by MPs last year of which £8.95 was claimed by Corbyn.

By trying to attach greed to the list of bad traits belonging to Corbyn you should be called out for chatting absolute uberwham .

Absolute joke of an argument.

I never once claimed he abused the expenses system, I'm saying he betrayed his own beliefs and principles by remaining within the Labour party and continuing to collect an MP's pay when the party absolutely did not reflect his beliefs. He knew he was a comedy figure within the party and a token socialist but stayed and collected the wages regardless.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

They are trying to railroad Corbyn to resign before the Chilcott report, that will show those with 'integrity' led the UK into a war on the basis of a big Goebbels lie. Some integrity.

You, as a Labour party member, must be concerned that those in parliament are going against the wishes of Labour party members who overwhelmingly voted for Corbyn? They are out of step with the vast majority in the Labour party, as they were with the majority of the people they represent in their area during the EU vote.

It is them that appear to be un-electable as their constituents gave them a big raspberry with the EU vote.

He got in because a large number of activists hijacked the leadership election and bought the £3 vote. I doubt if even half of them were Labour party members before Corbyn was put forward. The party is concerned about its long-term future, which would be utterly destroyed with Corbyn as leader.

 

[Milkman]

All the people in this cabinet are doing are showing that they have more integrity then Jeremy Corbyn ever had. While he sat comfortably in the Blairite government (which I take it you would expect was far for from left wing?!) happily excepting money to be their token socialist and comedy protest vote, he never once threatened to resign. You know why? Because he knew nobody would care if he did, and the only person that would lose out was himself and his own wallet! Basically you want Labour to become a far Left Wing unelectable party, well if you want that I can't understand why you don't just vote for TUSC? It seams like they wou the represent your beliefs much more then the modern Labour party. Corbyn will destroy the Labour party given half the chance, as he's totally unelectable. The only people who would vote for him are his gang of Wolfie Smith left wing activists, and in the process of making them happy he would practically create a one party state for the Conservative's, a truly terrifying prospect of ever there was one!

But yet neither you, nor anybody else, can actually give a legitimate reason why Corbyn is unelectable.

 

[jal123]

Is it only young labour Mp's that are 'careerist' in your eyes? Jeremy Corbyn was an MP when most of these people you're slagging off as careerist or diet Tories were in nappies.
By the fact he has now put himself in a position of power, by its very definition that makes him a careerist.

 

[jal123]

But yet neither you, nor anybody else, can actually give a legitimate reason why Corbyn is unelectable.

Because a huge majority of his MP's have no confidence in him, if the people he leads have no confidence how can the electorate?

 

[hullefc]

He got in because a large number of activists hijacked the leadership election and bought the £3 vote. I doubt if even half of them were Labour party members before Corbyn was put forward. The party is concerned about its long-term future, which would be utterly destroyed with Corbyn as leader.

"Jeremy Corbyn’s hopes of remoulding Labour have been boosted by a detailed Guardian survey into the party at grassroots level that shows overwhelming support for him, a decisive shift to the left and unhappiness with squabbling among MPs.

The Guardian has interviewed Labour secretaries, chairs, other office holders and members from more than 100 of the 632 constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales. Almost every constituency party across the country we contacted reported doubling, trebling, quadrupling or even quintupling membership, and a revival of branches that had been moribund for years and close to folding.

Reflecting increased interest among the young, university cities and towns recorded some of the biggest rises, with Bath jumping from 300 to 1,322 members (911 full members, 120 affiliated supporters and 291 registered supporters) and Colchester from 200-250 to almost 1,000. Neither are traditional Labour seats.

The survey findings are borne out by Labour’s national figures, released to the Guardian in a break with party tradition of keeping them secret. Membership jumped from 201,293 on 6 May last year, the day before the general election, to 388,407 on 10 January".

Answers your own question.

Have you seen in your local party evidence that it had been hijacked?

 

[neil999]

They are trying to railroad Corbyn to resign before the Chilcott report, that will show those with 'integrity' led the UK into a war on the basis of a big Goebbels lie. Some integrity.

You, as a Labour party member, must be concerned that those in parliament are going against the wishes of Labour party members who overwhelmingly voted for Corbyn? They are out of step with the vast majority in the Labour party, as they were with the majority of the people they represent in their area during the EU vote.

It is them that appear to be un-electable as their constituents gave them a big raspberry with the EU vote.

not trying to be argumentative here

but could you explain how chilcott affects things going forward? why does it matter who the leader is when this is released? as surely if people are implicated they will be in trouble whoever the leader is?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

But yet neither you, nor anybody else, can actually give a legitimate reason why Corbyn is unelectable.

The people he calls friends like Diane Abbott would be one reason. His complete lack of strong leadership being another. The Conservatives have been their for the taking for a long time now and he's done nothing. He's not once impressed me during his time as leader and believe it or not I wanted him to be a success. I simply don't believe he will and in the process he Will set the Labour party back generation's.

 

[hullefc]

Because a huge majority of his MP's have no confidence in him, if the people he leads have no confidence how can the electorate?

The electorate do not have any confidence in their MPs, as they voted against their wishes during the EU vote. It is them that are un-electable.

 

[magicjuan]

I never once claimed he abused the expenses system, I'm saying he betrayed his own beliefs and principles by remaining within the Labour party and continuing to collect an MP's pay when the party absolutely did not reflect his beliefs. He knew he was a comedy figure within the party and a token socialist but stayed and collected the wages regardless.

And those rebels now are they, en masse not doing the same?

There's a broad consensus of the membership support his policies now, should they withdraw ?

He won over a large support during his term so far, was he right to hang around to temper the shift away from labour principles to the tory lite stance they had, fighting for and defending the most vulnerable and most affected by tory policies?

This ideal to get elected with whatever it takes is nonsense the public will see through.
A right leaning labour party is no alternative to tory austerity and people want change.

Seriously why would you want a labour government carrying out tory policies?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

"Jeremy Corbyn’s hopes of remoulding Labour have been boosted by a detailed Guardian survey into the party at grassroots level that shows overwhelming support for him, a decisive shift to the left and unhappiness with squabbling among MPs.

The Guardian has interviewed Labour secretaries, chairs, other office holders and members from more than 100 of the 632 constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales. Almost every constituency party across the country we contacted reported doubling, trebling, quadrupling or even quintupling membership, and a revival of branches that had been moribund for years and close to folding.

Reflecting increased interest among the young, university cities and towns recorded some of the biggest rises, with Bath jumping from 300 to 1,322 members (911 full members, 120 affiliated supporters and 291 registered supporters) and Colchester from 200-250 to almost 1,000. Neither are traditional Labour seats.

The survey findings are borne out by Labour’s national figures, released to the Guardian in a break with party tradition of keeping them secret. Membership jumped from 201,293 on 6 May last year, the day before the general election, to 388,407 on 10 January".

Answers your own question.

Have you seen in your local party evidence that it had been hijacked?

I've seen with my own eyes a good number of people who've never taken an interest with politics in their life decide to buy the £3 membership purely to vote in Corbyn, "cos he's a good socialist, ya know". I think a lot of the supporters of Jeremy Corbyn would feel much more at home in the TUSC Party (a fine party that I have a lot of time for, incidentally).

 

[hullefc]

not trying to be argumentative here

but could you explain how chilcott affects things going forward? why does it matter who the leader is when this is released? as surely if people are implicated they will be in trouble whoever the leader is?

Because Corbyn as leader of the opposition will have a lot of time to stand up, more than he would as a back bencher, and point the finger at those that voted for war on a big weapons of mass destruction lie. The finger will be pointed at Hillary Benn, Burnham, Eagles, Alan Johnson etc. in fact everyone of those that are being proposed as potential leader of the Labour party.

Corbyn has said that if war crimes have been committed Tony Blair should face trial. That will drag those that voted for war into the mire and may mean they are un-electable. In a way they are fighting for their political lives and they hate the fact that Corbyn may reveal things they do not want the public to hear.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

"Jeremy Corbyn’s hopes of remoulding Labour have been boosted by a detailed Guardian survey into the party at grassroots level that shows overwhelming support for him, a decisive shift to the left and unhappiness with squabbling among MPs.

The Guardian has interviewed Labour secretaries, chairs, other office holders and members from more than 100 of the 632 constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales. Almost every constituency party across the country we contacted reported doubling, trebling, quadrupling or even quintupling membership, and a revival of branches that had been moribund for years and close to folding.

Reflecting increased interest among the young, university cities and towns recorded some of the biggest rises, with Bath jumping from 300 to 1,322 members (911 full members, 120 affiliated supporters and 291 registered supporters) and Colchester from 200-250 to almost 1,000. Neither are traditional Labour seats.

The survey findings are borne out by Labour’s national figures, released to the Guardian in a break with party tradition of keeping them secret. Membership jumped from 201,293 on 6 May last year, the day before the general election, to 388,407 on 10 January".

Answers your own question.

Have you seen in your local party evidence that it had been hijacked?

I've seen with my own eyes a good number of people who've never taken an interest with politics in their life decide to buy the £3 membership purely to vote in Corbyn, "cos he's a good socialist, ya know". I think a lot of the supporters of Jeremy Corbyn would feel much more at home in the TUSC Party (a fine party that I have a lot of time for, incidentally).