Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[magicjuan]

Is this blairite takeover attempt about Corbyn and the referendum, or the impending chilcot report?

If you look at the voting records of the more high profile backstabbing suicide squad you will notice a warmongery mentality and an affinity for Lord Tony of Basra.

Chilcott? You may possibly think that, I couldn't possibly comment......

 

[tsubaki]

Is this blairite takeover attempt about Corbyn and the referendum, or the impending chilcot report?

yes, yes, and yes

also I don't know if you have seen this already, but there is an amusing and rather compelling conspiracy theory being suggested here

 

[magicjuan]

I think he was trying to hold the party together and as most of his cabinet were for remain he caved. He handled it shockingly though, he'd of be better either proudly saying he was for leaving and that he disagrees with his cabinet but respects their points of view all the while saying it's not a party political matter, which it wasn't. Or he could he could of gone in properly, hart and soul for the Remain campaign, as any fool could see he wasn't really trying or even believing his own arguments. As it was he did neither and looked incredibly weak in the process of doing so.

REgardless, 67% of labour voters voted remain. Some hard left (sic) like myself voted leave for the same reasons as Skinner etc, so say 15% accounted for there, leaving circa 18% who either didn't vote or voted leave. An atrocious job that.

Imagine, if he'd put his mind to the campaign we'd have all voted so eagerly to remain we'd have all been French..

 

[Mrk]

What caused Corbyn to come out for remain? He must have been pressured from somewhere. I should point out I'm not trying to get into the referendum thing here but genuinely curious about this.

Because it's Labour Party policy to be a member of the EU - Corbyn claims to believe in party democracy, so he couldn't really go against the party.

 

[neil999]

If you look at the voting records of the more high profile backstabbing suicide squad you will notice a warmongery mentality and an affinity for Lord Tony of Basra.

Chilcott? You may possibly think that, I couldn't possibly comment......

But 80% of labour mps voted no confidence! Are they all backstabbers? Will they all have to be deselected??

 

[tsubaki]

But 80% of labour mps voted no confidence! Are they all backstabbers? Will they all have to be deselected??

No-one who has ambition in the PLP will have voted to keep him, though.

This was a coup organized in the whips office and with the active encouragement of the Shadow Cabinet - if you look at the leaked lists of who has kept faith, its either people who have sense / don't really give a monkeys either way because they are off (Burnham), loyalists who aren't part of the PLP club anyway (McDonnell, Abbott, Cat Smith, Skinner etc) or the very new (Allin-Khan). The PLP will stamp* on anyone else who supports him, because that is the type of people they are.

* edit: or at least they will try to, lets face it they don't have a glittering record of competence

 

[Frank Gallagher]

But 80% of labour mps voted no confidence! Are they all backstabbers? Will they all have to be deselected??

i have never seen a party in such disarray... its getting to the point of being comical.

we need a strong shadow party who will contest the government. not a shambolic load of back stabbers who do not even have any faith in their leader, but also do not have any real leaders in waiting.

 

[neil999]

No-one who has ambition in the PLP will have voted to keep him, though.

This was a coup organized in the whips office and with the active encouragement of the Shadow Cabinet - if you look at the leaked lists of who has kept faith, its either people who have sense / don't really give a monkeys either way because they are off (Burnham), loyalists who aren't part of the PLP club anyway (McDonnell, Abbott, Cat Smith, Skinner etc) or the very new (Allin-Khan). The PLP will stamp* on anyone else who supports him, because that is the type of people they are.

* edit: or at least they will try to, lets face it they don't have a glittering record of competence

So 80% of the party are pure careerists? Or they just think he is competent...

 

[magicjuan]

But 80% of labour mps voted no confidence! Are they all backstabbers? Will they all have to be deselected??

Shows their priorities at a time when the tories are eating themselves, selfish, self-centred gits, so erm, yes, get shut if needs be. Be few people would like the expenses.

 

[neil999]

Shows their priorities at a time when the tories are eating themselves, selfish, self-centred gits, so erm, yes, get shut if needs be. Be few people would like the expenses.

Or...Corbyn is being selfish staying on knowing he has no support from PLP and can't win a general election

Guess we could go in circles on this one, will agree to disagree

 

[tsubaki]

So 80% of the party are pure careerists? Or they just think he is competent...

I don't think so - if anything, the PLP is probably like most workplaces in that most people just want to keep their heads down and get on in the world safely. What is happening here is you have a clique, who both represent the "successful" past, have access to some quite frightening levels of support from business and the media, and (most importantly) who have form for actually destroying other people (Kelly, Filkin etc)... and so most of the PLP isn't going to stand up for someone who they are not sure of anyway.

 

[tsubaki]

Or...Corbyn is being selfish staying on knowing he has no support from PLP and can't win a general election

Guess we could go in circles on this one, will agree to disagree

He has no support from the PLP, but I would question this theory that he can't win a general election. He has had nearly a year in office, with constant negative coverage from the Press, an ongoing and very prominent insurgency within his own party, and Labour's share of the vote has gone up (30.4% in the 2015 election, between 30 and 35% in the most recent polls).

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

i have never seen a party in such disarray... its getting to the point of being comical.

we need a strong shadow party who will contest the government. not a shambolic load of back stabbers who do not even have any faith in their leader, but also do not have any real leaders in waiting.

I think that part of the reason they've gone for him now is because the Conservative's are in an awful state themselves and a half competent leader would have made mincemeat out of them but Corbyn has just bumbled along and somehow made things worse. They may not have anyone amazing to replace Corbyn with but I defy them to find anyone that's as bad as he is. He's totally clueless and is stuck in the 70's fighting a losing battle against his own party. If he doesn't like that his party rebelled against him well isn't that just very ironic considering he only made a name for himself by being the guy who always rebelled against the party.

 

[atrottel]

herein lies the whole upset with Corbyn, never mind what Attrotel posted, Corbyn did not actively, Energetically or enthusiatically campaign for the In Camp. Why did Labour not have a bus an d go round the country for example. Corbyn was lukewarm in his talk of staying in the EU. Never really addressed any of the issues linked to the EU whether in or out.

I was actually trying to point out the difference in press coverage of May and Corbyn when both allegedly did the same thing (although I accept one was a leader and one a potential leader of their respective parties I would still maintain Corbyn did more for Remain than May).

If I lived in the UK I think I would have voted for Corbyn last year and probably not now. Difficult to see any decent alternative for 'traditional' rather than 'New Labour' members though these days and anyway any other Labour leader outside the Blairite careerist wing would get crucified from all sides.

 

[bizzaro]

I think that part of the reason they've gone for him now is because the Conservative's are in an awful state themselves and a half competent leader would have made mincemeat out of them but Corbyn has just bumbled along and somehow made things worse. They may not have anyone amazing to replace Corbyn with but I defy them to find anyone that's as bad as he is. He's totally clueless and is stuck in the 70's fighting a losing battle against his own party. If he doesn't like that his party rebelled against him well isn't that just very ironic considering he only made a name for himself by being the guy who always rebelled against the party.

Agreed