Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Tubey]

I know what you are saying but I disagree. The time to speak out was during the election of a leader. When the democratic process is complete you abide by it and do your best to make it work. Deliberately being disloyal to everyone you don't completely agree with is not on really. After all, if you are in Labour Party you surely must realise that sooner or later you are going to have to work with, and perhaps for, a socialist......

Mate, we had another three years of Martinez to look forward to if we followed that logic.

If a leader fails, you redress the situation and bring in someone who can actually lead.

The problem with Corbyn is that he has absolutely no chance of winning an election. When politicians see that, they're going to do something about it, because they exist to gain power and exercise that power to the benefit of their constituents. No Labour politician should be happy being a party of protest but no substance.

 

[bizzaro]

Mate, we had another three years of Martinez to look forward to if we followed that logic.

If a leader fails, you redress the situation and bring in someone who can actually lead.

The problem with Corbyn is that he has absolutely no chance of winning an election. When politicians see that, they're going to do something about it, because they exist to gain power and exercise that power to the benefit of their constituents. No Labour politician should be happy being a party of protest but no substance.

I've got more chance of being on the next moon mission than vote Corbyn.

Hillary Benn is a far more credible political leader

 

[Frank Gallagher]

I've got more chance of being on the next moon mission than vote Corbyn.

Hillary Benn is a far more credible political leader

asked yesterday if he (corbyn) really wants to be priminister , he refused to answer the question.

what is the actual point of being leader of the opposition if you dont really want to be priminister.

labour are in a complete mess from top to bottom and are not in a position to benefit from this huge tory feck up.

 

[rascal]

I've got more chance of being on the next moon mission than vote Corbyn.

Hillary Benn is a far more credible political leader

Agreed.

 

[magicjuan]

Corbyn needs to be removed as leader, unfortunately.

Heidi Alexander quits the cabinet.

A clusterfuk is brewing.

Not so. The shift to the right by the blairite elements has been a huge contribution to the situation we're in now, the detachment from its own values and therefore its own core support.
With little to choose from between the main parties all it took to attract the disenfranchised was something they could relate to, being ignored, losing disability benefits, even racist rhetoric, anything they could latch on to.
Corbyn, though diluted by the PLP, is an alternative to Westminster lobbying and anything at all, even this undermining of the system, has to be for the good.
For labour to take advantage they need to get behind a democratically elected leader, not begin their own night of the long knives.

Benn should be used as an example and all those other snidey, sneaky little turds whingeing to the press and blaming Corbyn for the brexit vote need to take a long hard look at themselves, but I doubt they would be bothered, after all they put themselves first and the public a very distant second.

 

[magicjuan]

Agreed.

Based on what? A war cry? Really? That was the price he paid for his conscience and soul.

 

[flibbyflob]

About time.

The inevitable ousting of the useless Corbyn I mean.

Hasn't he said he will just run again and given his popularity among the members who pick the leader he will get back on.

 

[Boss_Blue]

"Who's next motherflumpers?"

 

[magicjuan]

We elect them to serve us, not the party leader. If they feel the leader isn't serving us, they should speak out, otherwise there's no point having a General Election that elects regional politicians. We may as well have a dictatorship if politicians should "do as they're told" all the time.

If the leader cannot maintain loyalty, that's the fault of the leader - and not just in politics, that's the case in any job.

I believe electing regional politicians is what creates parliament and makes it representative.

Or has there been a constitutional change I've missed?

 

[tonyhorne]

Mate, we had another three years of Martinez to look forward to if we followed that logic.

If a leader fails, you redress the situation and bring in someone who can actually lead.

The problem with Corbyn is that he has absolutely no chance of winning an election. When politicians see that, they're going to do something about it, because they exist to gain power and exercise that power to the benefit of their constituents. No Labour politician should be happy being a party of protest but no substance.

Yeah but Martinez wasn't elected democratically. Corbyn was. He will have no chance if the decision is not respected particularly by MPs who themselves are only in a job for the same reason. Can we all now just decide not to abide by any policy or law we disagree with? Ignore and undermine those we dislike?

Hilary Benn and others should get on with the job, or shut up and let others get on with the job, or go and start/join the political party that is closer to their own convictions or that gives them a greater chance of achieving their personal ambitions.

They were elected to carry out the will of the people not to impose their will on everyone else.........

 

[Tubey]

I believe electing regional politicians is what creates parliament and makes it representative.

Or has there been a constitutional change I've missed?

That's what I said?

 

[Tubey]

Yeah but Martinez wasn't elected democratically. Corbyn was. He will have no chance if the decision is not respected particularly by MPs who themselves are only in a job for the same reason. Can we all now just decide not to abide by any policy or law we disagree with? Ignore and undermine those we dislike?

Hilary Benn and others should get on with the job, or shut up and let others get on with the job, or go and start/join the political party that is closer to their own convictions or that gives them a greater chance of achieving their personal ambitions.

They were elected to carry out the will of the people not to impose their will on everyone else.........

Bold line is it in a nutshell. And that's the point - they can't carry out the will of the people if the leader doesn't represent the will of the people.

And he doesn't. Outside a few hard left wingers and hipster student, Corbyn has zero support and zero chance in a GE.

How do you carry out the will of the people if you can't attain a position to do so?

 

[magicjuan]

That's what I said?

Apologies, misread, mea culpa....

 

[magicjuan]

Bold line is it in a nutshell. And that's the point - they can't carry out the will of the people if the leader doesn't represent the will of the people.

And he doesn't. Outside a few hard left wingers and hipster student, Corbyn has zero support and zero chance in a GE.

How do you carry out the will of the people if you can't attain a position to do so?

He has no support in numbers from the PLP, his legitimacy is from the people, like all politicians should be.

 

[bizzaro]

Not so. The shift to the right by the blairite elements has been a huge contribution to the situation we're in now, the detachment from its own values and therefore its own core support.
With little to choose from between the main parties all it took to attract the disenfranchised was something they could relate to, being ignored, losing disability benefits, even racist rhetoric, anything they could latch on to.
Corbyn, though diluted by the PLP, is an alternative to Westminster lobbying and anything at all, even this undermining of the system, has to be for the good.
For labour to take advantage they need to get behind a democratically elected leader, not begin their own night of the long knives.

Benn should be used as an example and all those other snidey, sneaky little turds whingeing to the press and blaming Corbyn for the brexit vote need to take a long hard look at themselves, but I doubt they would be bothered, after all they put themselves first and the public a very distant second.

I can tell you are just an anachist. You're against any form of government. You just want to oppose everything.

Much like Corbyn.


Hilary Benn actually believes in government.

He's a politician I respect. I can't respect Corbyn