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Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

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tsubaki said:
That isn't representing their constituents, though -that is representing themselves, and their party (edit: or more accurately, their faction in their party).
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Of course they're representing their constituents.

We live in a parliamentary democracy, not one where every decision is made by the general public. Anybody with an ounce of sense can see Corbyn is unelectable and would lose a massive number of centre ground voters in the next election.

Why on earth should we bother having somebody lead for their values if they will never have a chance at implementing them ?

Sometimes the general population don't actually know what's best.
 
Brennan said:
Of course they're representing their constituents.

We live in a parliamentary democracy, not one where every decision is made by the general public. Anybody with an ounce of sense can see Corbyn is unelectable and would lose a massive number of centre ground voters in the next election.

Why on earth should we bother having somebody lead for their values if they will never have a chance at implementing them ?

Sometimes the general population don't actually know what's best.
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The general population usually do know what's best. The tiny minority of Labour voters who happen to be Labour members, however, do not...............
 
Yeah, the centre ground is where it's at. Let's ignore the 5 million voters that defected to UKIP, and the whole of Scotland to the SNP. They left Labour because it wasn't centre enough under Brown and then Miliband didn't they? Everything was working just great then, let's get that back. What's the point in being a Labour government if you're just some Diet Tory alternative?
 
Brennan said:
Of course they're representing their constituents.

We live in a parliamentary democracy, not one where every decision is made by the general public. Anybody with an ounce of sense can see Corbyn is unelectable and would lose a massive number of centre ground voters in the next election.

Why on earth should we bother having somebody lead for their values if they will never have a chance at implementing them ?

Sometimes the general population don't actually know what's best.
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No offence, but this is mostly nonsense. For a start, I would love to know how they are representing their constituents by getting rid of a leader because they think he is unelectable. That is a decision which is demonstrably in their interest, not in that of their constituents. Their constituents probably want them to sort out the mess that the country is in.

Secondly, I would like to know how it is that they are experts in what is electable, given that they have badly lost the last two elections, turned Scotland from dozens of safe seats into one seat, and have just seen most of what remains of "safe Labour territory" vote against them.

As for "the general population don't actually know what's best", that is probably the truest statement of what they actually think.
 
tsubaki said:
No offence, but this is mostly nonsense. For a start, I would love to know how they are representing their constituents by getting rid of a leader because they think he is unelectable. That is a decision which is demonstrably in their interest, not in that of their constituents. Their constituents probably want them to sort out the mess that the country is in.

Secondly, I would like to know how it is that they are experts in what is electable, given that they have badly lost the last two elections, turned Scotland from dozens of safe seats into one seat, and have just seen most of what remains of "safe Labour territory" vote against them.

As for "the general population don't actually know what's best", that is probably the truest statement of what they actually think.
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You don't need to be an expert in knowing what is electable to know what Corbyn will never win a general election.
 

Milkman said:
Yeah, the centre ground is where it's at. Let's ignore the 5 million voters that defected to UKIP, and the whole of Scotland to the SNP. They left Labour because it wasn't centre enough under Brown and then Miliband didn't they? Everything was working just great then, let's get that back. What's the point in being a Labour government if you're just some Diet Tory alternative?
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No they left Miliband because he was a pillock and Sturgeon and Farage had a bit of charisma and a simpler story....
 
rascal said:
Some people are just so ridiculously blind to reality I'm getting a concussion just from banging my head against the wall. Jeremy Corbyn is not electable in a General Election and never has been. What's so difficult to accept here? Christ on a mother trucking bike.
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Mate. Tell Jeremy that.
 

Brennan said:
You don't need to be an expert in knowing what is electable to know what Corbyn will never win a general election.
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Perhaps not, but you would have to be a fool to replace him with someone from a group that has lost the last two general elections, and the referendum, and Scotland, and even their own leadership election.
 
Milkman said:
That, my friend, is the attitude is that has made Labour 'completely unelectable'. Keep hold of that viewpoint and I'll check back with you in 2020 to see how it worked out.
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The way Labour and the Tories are self destructing over Europe if a poor compromise is reached on article 50 the rise of UKIP will only grow IMO - we need a strong Government, and a strong opposition - if we get a split Tory leadership battle, and Corbyn is voted in on the £3.00p ticket of extreme Woolfy smith power to the people he is totally unelectable to the British public, it may leave the door open to UKIP if article 50 is not delivered by the Tory brexit team!
Not in total power but enough to be a nuscince in Parliament in the future!
 
Most surprising thing of this whole saga is that the PLP want Eagle as leader...

It's the right thing to get rid of Corbyn; but the utterly wrong thing to get someone that awful as the replacement. All it will do is get the unions and membership voting massively for Corbyn and you reset the board to square one.

Think we're looking at the end of Labour to be honest. A huge split-off and a new party may be incoming.
 
Tubey said:
Most surprising thing of this whole saga is that the PLP want Eagle as leader...

It's the right thing to get rid of Corbyn; but the utterly wrong thing to get someone that awful as the replacement. All it will do is get the unions and membership voting massively for Corbyn and you reset the board to square one.

Think we're looking at the end of Labour to be honest. A huge split-off and a new party may be incoming.
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A split certainly, but I am not sure it will be the end of Labour.

The most active of the plotters will probably flounce off into some new party - but given that they would get no union funding, no membership funding, would probably be reliant on the same dodgy sources that propped Blair up and would be inevitably cliquey, you can't really see much of the rest of the PLP signing up for it. I'd expect most to stay - especially if Corbyn was smart about it, binned the whips office off (who lets face it appear to have organized the revolt) and let everyone have a free vote on everything, providing they could explain why to their constituents and CLPs.
 

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