Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[tsubaki]

It's sadly obvious now that Jeremy Corbyn means more to his fan boys and girls than the country means to them. I do not pay my membership fee for this, and am having to seriously reconsider my membership. It is a sad day for me personally, but the deluded have won.

What do you going to think is happen to your vote in the LP if Eagle wins? Do you expect to ever be actually asked your views on who should be leader in such an open way again?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Those standing for parliament in the Labour Party are put their by the constituency party and then put forward for election.

Nope.

Luciana Berger (bliar's lad's mate from college) wasn't put in by the constituency party. She was parachuted in by the NEC (aka her mates. the bliars)

 

[tsubaki]

Nope.

Luciana Berger (bliar's lad's mate from college) wasn't put in by the constituency party. She was parachuted in by the NEC (aka her mates. the bliars)

The CLPs still technically elect them, but you are right things have been fixed so that the centre can get the people it wants in there.

This is actually my biggest criticism of Corbyn as a leader - the very first thing he should have done is to free the CLPs to elect who they wanted (with the proviso that a certain % would have to be all women shortlists, though they would draw up the list). It wouldn't do anything to affect the makeup of the party for ages, but it would at least spare the party from any more Bergers, Hunts, Milibands etc.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

The CLPs still technically elect them, but you are right things have been fixed so that the centre can get the people it wants in there.

This is actually my biggest criticism of Corbyn as a leader - the very first thing he should have done is to free the CLPs to elect who they wanted (with the proviso that a certain % would have to be all women shortlists, though they would draw up the list). It wouldn't do anything to affect the makeup of the party for ages, but it would at least spare the party from any more Bergers, Hunts, Milibands etc.

Aye, he's deffo missed a trick there...

IIRC wasn't berger's seat (Wavertree) an all-women shortlist? Think it was one of the first, if it was.

 

[hullefc]

"In the last few weeks before the Chilcot report into the UK’s role in the Iraq War – a report that is expected to be excoriating in its criticism of the then-Labour government’s role, would it surprise you to discover that many of the Shadow Cabinet quitters voted in favour of that war?

They are Hilary Benn, Angela Eagle, Vernon Coaker, Chris Bryant, John Healey and Maria Eagle.

Most of these people – and a few more – also voted in favour of the UK carrying out air strikes in Syria, against Labour Party policy, when the matter was discussed last December.

They are Heidi Alexander, Hilary Benn (who spoke passionately in favour of the reckless plan), Lucy Powell, Gloria De Piero, Chris Bryant, Angela Eagle, Maria Eagle and Vernon Coaker".

As Claire Short said, “What was known...was exaggerated... and we were deceived.”

Angela Eagles is putting herself forward to lead a political party, when her skills at scrutinising inform is massively called into question, when she voted for war against Iraq on the basis of the weapons of mass destruction lie.

Unfortunately for the plotters, if she is the only 'credible' warmonger then they are in big big trouble. No wonder they are plotting to have themselves installed, as the 'loyal opposition' to try and stop Corbyn from speaking. The likes of Eagle is fighting for her political future. No wonder they are fighting dirty and dishonestly.

They should resign if they had any sort of integrity. But that integrity went out the window the moment they voted for an illegal war based on lying information.

 

[hullefc]

Nope.

Luciana Berger (bliar's lad's mate from college) wasn't put in by the constituency party. She was parachuted in by the NEC (aka her mates. the bliars)

I stand corrected, that democracy means nothing to the Blairites in the Labour Party. Hopefully the rank and file will rise up and demand they resign. This week there are a lot of constituency party and trade unions meeting to discuss deselecting MPs.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I stand corrected, that democracy means nothing to the Blairites in the Labour Party. Hopefully the rank and file will rise up and demand they resign. This week there are a lot of constituency party and trade unions meeting to discuss deselecting MPs.

Incidentally, eagle has been the chair of the NEC, and the head of the national policy forum before that.

No coincidence that was when they've been in opposition.

She's THE worst type of thumb-twiddling, 'wait until the last minute, then change your mind' politician.

Never could stand her.

 

[bizzaro]

Look, I will make this as simple as possible for you. MPs are elected in order to represent all the members of their constituency. They are expected to do this to the best of their ability. If sufficient numbers of them come together that they can beat the rest of them, the person in charge of them gets the chance to form a government. If that happens because of an election, then those MPs have a mandate from the electorate to do what they have said they are going to do.

None of those MPs have a mandate from their electorate to get rid of their leader, unless you can find evidence that people stood for election as MPs on that basis. Just because they are elected MPs, that does not mean that they have a mandate to do whatever it is they decide to do. They don't even have a mandate from their CLPs.

All the PLP is is a group of MPs, all of whom were elected after saying they were the Labour candidate (or Co-op candidate). It does not have a mandate itself, nor does it represent anything other than itself.

They have a mandate to represent their constitutents but also as elected party members.

This gives them a mandate to do whatever is in the best interests of both and the country.

Maybe that might make you think harder at the next GENERAL ELECTION of what you are voting for in your MP


The PLP is the party in parliament. Every single member has a mandate from their constitutents.

 

[sd_1992]

This is about Chilcott and everyone knows it, there is a reason they tried to force Corbyn out before going for a leadership contest. Being involved with the Blair government is about to become so toxic that the party will not vote any of them in if Corbyn gets back on the ballot.

Imagine what is going to happen to those MP's that have stood against him if he wins though...

 

[bizzaro]

"In the last few weeks before the Chilcot report into the UK’s role in the Iraq War – a report that is expected to be excoriating in its criticism of the then-Labour government’s role, would it surprise you to discover that many of the Shadow Cabinet quitters voted in favour of that war?

They are Hilary Benn, Angela Eagle, Vernon Coaker, Chris Bryant, John Healey and Maria Eagle.

Most of these people – and a few more – also voted in favour of the UK carrying out air strikes in Syria, against Labour Party policy, when the matter was discussed last December.

They are Heidi Alexander, Hilary Benn (who spoke passionately in favour of the reckless plan), Lucy Powell, Gloria De Piero, Chris Bryant, Angela Eagle, Maria Eagle and Vernon Coaker".

As Claire Short said, “What was known...was exaggerated... and we were deceived.”

Angela Eagles is putting herself forward to lead a political party, when her skills at scrutinising inform is massively called into question, when she voted for war against Iraq on the basis of the weapons of mass destruction lie.

Unfortunately for the plotters, if she is the only 'credible' warmonger then they are in big big trouble. No wonder they are plotting to have themselves installed, as the 'loyal opposition' to try and stop Corbyn from speaking. The likes of Eagle is fighting for her political future. No wonder they are fighting dirty and dishonestly.

They should resign if they had any sort of integrity. But that integrity went out the window the moment they voted for an illegal war based on lying information.

Did someone say: 'plotters' ?

 

[tsubaki]

They have a mandate to represent their constitutents but also as elected party members.

No, they have a mandate from their constituents to represent them to the best of their ability as MPs. MPs who are from the government have a mandate to bring about the programme they were elected on. None of the PLP have a mandate to get rid of their own leader, not from their Parliamentary constituents and not even from their own CLPs.

This gives them a mandate to do whatever is in the best interests of both and the country.

That is a fallacy though - if they have to ask themselves if a decision is in the best interests of the party as well as that of the country, then they cannot be thinking of the country's best interests.

Maybe that might make you think harder at the next GENERAL ELECTION of what you are voting for in your MP

This is perhaps medicine best taken by yourself.

The PLP is the party in parliament. Every single member has a mandate from their constitutents.

To represent them. Not to react to the biggest national crisis of our lifetimes by thinking "what a great chance this is to get rid of our leader".

 

[bizzaro]

No, they have a mandate from their constituents to represent them to the best of their ability as MPs. MPs who are from the government have a mandate to bring about the programme they were elected on. None of the PLP have a mandate to get rid of their own leader, not from their Parliamentary constituents and not even from their own CLPs.



That is a fallacy though - if they have to ask themselves if a decision is in the best interests of the party as well as that of the country, then they cannot be thinking of the country's best interests.



This is perhaps medicine best taken by yourself.



To represent them. Not to react to the biggest national crisis of our lifetimes by thinking "what a great chance this is to get rid of our leader".

They've clearly said their constituents have told them they have no confidence in Corbyn.

I've heard them on TV saying this.

So these MPS are just doing what theit constituents have told them.

 

[tsubaki]

They've clearly said their constituents have told them they have no confidence in Corbyn.

I've heard them on TV saying this.

So these MPS are just doing what theit constituents have told them.

Would you like to buy a bridge?

 

[bizzaro]

Would you like to buy a bridge?

Not particularly.

I think Corbyn should go.

The momentum group are trying to seize control of the Labour Party.

Corbyn is only interested in running a protest movement. Not actual governance.

 

[sd_1992]

I thought the reason they were trying to oust Corbyn now was more to do with the chances of an early general election being called when the next prime minister is installed when Cameron leaves, and they don't think Corbyn could win a general election.

None they put forward now will win an election, I also don't think many people in the Labour party are stupid enough to think there will be an election called...