Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Blair used a lie to go to war. Blair started the austerity programme against the poor, vulnerable and the disabled by the bedroom tax, cuts to welfare payments that allowed the DWP to start harassing the vulnerable and disabled to find work by hook or by crook, was instrumental in expanding the vastly expensive PFI that enabled the NHS to be further privatised. Increased the expansion of the academisation of the schools that put them in private hands for profit. He laid the groundwork for further Tory assaults against the poor, vulnerable and disabled.

Great achievement was Mr Blair.

Spot-on. However, don't forget 'Education, education, education."

(If you pay £3k a year for it, like)

 

[Clint Planet]

Corbyn's not going - he has a huge mandate and the support of hundreds of thousands far beyond the confines of the PLP. The sooner the PLP realise that, the better for all of us.

 

[tsubaki]

Spot-on. However, don't forget 'Education, education, education."

(If you pay £3k a year for it, like)

9k

and the rest

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

9k

and the rest

£9k now....Started off at £3k though, IIRC.

Also, IIRC they said they wouldn't increase it.

 

[Clint Planet]

Spot-on. However, don't forget 'Education, education, education."

(If you pay £3k a year for it, like)

To be fair, Labour more than doubled spending (in real terms) on education under Blair/Brown.

Tory cuts are beginning to bite hard in schools right now. I despise Blair as Bush-felating war criminal bur Labour delivered on education.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

To be fair, Labour more than doubled spending (in real terms) on education under Blair/Brown.

Tory cuts are beginning to bite hard in schools right now. I despise Blair as Bush-felating war criminal bur Labour delivered on education.

Did they? Did they really?

I didn't really pay much attention to that dept, tbh. I remember Estelle Morris(?) spewing it because she wern't up to the job, and I remember the hoo-hah that the exams had 'got easier'...

 

[roydo]

Corbyn's not going - he has a huge mandate and the support of hundreds of thousands far beyond the confines of the PLP. The sooner the PLP realise that, the better for all of us.

But thats the contradiction that I was alluding to the other day Clint.

He has very little support from the elected members of the PLP, who were elected into the Commons under a different leader, and by far more people that voted for him in the leadership contest. (Which could be said for any party leader, I concede).

So to a non labour supporter, and really little more than an interested observer, on the one hand he has a democratic mandate, but on the other, he doesnt have the support of democratically elected MPs.

Democratic Paper Scissors Stone is what I see.

 

[Mrk]

The left's inability to understand the working class in this country (and more specifically England) never fails to amaze me. No wonder they haven't won an election since 1974.

 

[moyeslovechild]

The left's inability to understand the working class in this country (and more specifically England) never fails to amaze me. No wonder they haven't won an election since 1974.

What are you on about? Demonstrations in big cities full of people calling the Tories scum and waving posters about will sweep them into power

 

[Mrk]

What are you on about? Demonstrations in big cities full of people calling the Tories scum and waving posters about will sweep them into power

Indeed lol

 

[roydo]

The left's inability to understand the working class in this country (and more specifically England) never fails to amaze me. No wonder they haven't won an election since 1974.

I am working class, and I dont really like the assumption that "The Working Class" is some collegiate body of like minded people who can only ever be protected from themselves/nasty bosses by one political party.

70 plus years ago, yeah, I see that. These days, not so much.

 

[Clint Planet]

Did they? Did they really?

I didn't really pay much attention to that dept, tbh. I remember Estelle Morris(?) spewing it because she wern't up to the job, and I remember the hoo-hah that the exams had 'got easier'...

You know what, education is such a politically charged area that you can, in all probability, never be universally seen to deliver on it (Bruce, for example, has always had his ill-informed, ideological views on the subject). But one cannot deny that Labour poured huge amounts of money into education and that is bound to have had a positive effect even if it's impossible to measure it in a world of a million counteracting variables.

The Tories, on the other hand, are happy to run state education into the ground. Take it from someone who fights the good fight every day.

 

[Mrk]

I am working class, and I dont really like the assumption that "The Working Class" is some collegiate body of like minded people who can only ever be protected from themselves/nasty bosses by one political party.

70 plus years ago, yeah, I see that. These days, not so much.

Couldn't agree more. I'm from a working class area and the vast, vast majority of working class people I have grown up with are, on the whole, centrists, with small-c conservative views on topics such as immigration, welfare, government spending and centre-left views on unions, taxation etc

Until the left understand that the working class in this country aren't radical socialists (or socialists at all for that matter!) they'll continue to be completely irrelevant. Such a pity.

 

[bizzaro]

But thats the contradiction that I was alluding to the other day Clint.

He has very little support from the elected members of the PLP, who were elected into the Commons under a different leader, and by far more people that voted for him in the leadership contest. (Which could be said for any party leader, I concede).

So to a non labour supporter, and really little more than an interested observer, on the one hand he has a democratic mandate, but on the other, he doesnt have the support of democratically elected MPs.

Democratic Paper Scissors Stone is what I see.

Excellent analogy.

Immovable object (or won't move with claimed 'mandate') - meeting - irresistible force (trying to kick him off with actual individual 'mandates').

 

[Clint Planet]

An interesting view. I must say, I do tire of his strident delivery after a while but it's worth watching to get a flavour of why Jezzer is so trusted/supported....