Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Old Blue 2]

My experience of Angela Eagle is that she is not fit for purpose. It's all about what she wants, and what she wants to impose without regard to anyone or anything else. That was abundantly clear when she was in the Blair Government with the remit for Social Security when I was still working there. The worst choice of a Labour Party leader, ever. What you are seeing now, and in the forthcoming weeks, is a camouflaged identity of the real person.

And this is worth a read:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/jeremy-corbyn-media-coup-bbc-labour/

 

[edge]

Why wouldn't you vote for him Edge? Do you disagree with what he campaigns for, or do you just think he's a bit boring?

Don't mind him myself when I listen to him I agree with most of it, but he just didn't inspire me at all , pm question time ect he comes across like a world weary maths teachers who has taken one lesson to many and just drones on for the sake of it.
So to some extend yes I suppose he does bore me.
I don't like the likes of Abbot and some of the others he has around him seem to London centric for my tastes.
They seem to think that there version of labour is the only way, when it hasn't appealed to the country for a long time, they are out of touch with the voters , but in touch with the activist in the party it seems .
to me that its a battle for a party that can win an election or one that sits around looking aghast at everything but will do nothing in reality because its unelectable.
It might not be popular or even mortally correct but we need a leader who can play the media game and a party that can re engage with people across the country, if that means somebody more media friendly rather than a solid party man so be it.
For me its I don't think he can ever win an election ,so Whats the point of him being leader its a waste of time and gives the Tories an easy ride.
Dont think Eagle is up to it either to be honest, if I were in charge of the labour party I would be looking for a young Scottish mp for the job , cynical I know but needs must if we are to be anything other than a protest group.
The tory party puts up some right bells , but they are winners agaist the labour party so that tells you something is radically wrong.

 

[Blue 1]

Don't mind him myself when I listen to him I agree with most of it, but he just didn't inspire me at all , pm question time ect he comes across like a world weary maths teachers who has taken one lesson to many and just drones on for the sake of it.
So to some extend yes I suppose he does bore me.
I don't like the likes of Abbot and some of the others he has around him seem to London centric for my tastes.
They seem to think that there version of labour is the only way, when it hasn't appealed to the country for a long time, they are out of touch with the voters , but in touch with the activist in the party it seems .
to me that its a battle for a party that can win an election or one that sits around looking aghast at everything but will do nothing in reality because its unelectable.
It might not be popular or even mortally correct but we need a leader who can play the media game and a party that can re engage with people across the country, if that means somebody more media friendly rather than a solid party man so be it.
For me its I don't think he can ever win an election ,so Whats the point of him being leader its a waste of time and gives the Tories an easy ride.
Dont think Eagle is up to it either to be honest, if I were in charge of the labour party I would be looking for a young Scottish mp for the job , cynical I know but needs must if we are to be anything other than a protest group.
The tory party puts up some right bells , but they are winners agaist the labour party so that tells you something is radically wrong.

More chance of finding a unicorn at the moment I'd have thought.

The Blairite lot give the Tories an even easier ride than Corbyn has been doing. They just wave every bit of repressive, austerity-based legislation through without challenge.

I don't entirely care if Corbyn stays leader or not, but I'd prefer him to any of that lot. I don't see how any of them would be any more electable. Ideally I'd like a younger version of Corbyn who's also a better orator.

 

[Khalekan]

My experience of Angela Eagle is that she is not fit for purpose. It's all about what she wants, and what she wants to impose without regard to anyone or anything else. That was abundantly clear when she was in the Blair Government with the remit for Social Security when I was still working there. The worst choice of a Labour Party leader, ever. What you are seeing now, and in the forthcoming weeks, is a camouflaged identity of the real person.

And this is worth a read:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/jeremy-corbyn-media-coup-bbc-labour/

Good article, that.

 

[Milkman]

Don't mind him myself when I listen to him I agree with most of it, but he just didn't inspire me at all , pm question time ect he comes across like a world weary maths teachers who has taken one lesson to many and just drones on for the sake of it.
So to some extend yes I suppose he does bore me.
I don't like the likes of Abbot and some of the others he has around him seem to London centric for my tastes.
They seem to think that there version of labour is the only way, when it hasn't appealed to the country for a long time, they are out of touch with the voters , but in touch with the activist in the party it seems .
to me that its a battle for a party that can win an election or one that sits around looking aghast at everything but will do nothing in reality because its unelectable.
It might not be popular or even mortally correct but we need a leader who can play the media game and a party that can re engage with people across the country, if that means somebody more media friendly rather than a solid party man so be it.
For me its I don't think he can ever win an election ,so Whats the point of him being leader its a waste of time and gives the Tories an easy ride.
Dont think Eagle is up to it either to be honest, if I were in charge of the labour party I would be looking for a young Scottish mp for the job , cynical I know but needs must if we are to be anything other than a protest group.
The tory party puts up some right bells , but they are winners agaist the labour party so that tells you something is radically wrong.

I think you've summed up a lot of people's hesitance towards him actually, but I think you've got the wrong idea. He isn't London-centric, he's possibly the last person in parliament you could level that accusation at. He's someone who is fighting for the small towns that have had their industries ruined - see the Durham Miner's Gala last week for example. London-centrism stems from capitalism and is more associated with the neoliberalism of the Blair/Brown years.

The version of Labour he's pushing hasn't been seen for decades – people have been turned off by middle of the road politics, look at the last election. That's the approach the rebelling PLP want us to go back to. What failed so miserably with Brown and Miliband is nothing to do with Corbyn, and that's partly why he's proven to be so popular.

He's only unelectable if his own party keep telling people he is. Don't buy into what the media feed you, they think you're stupid. Corbyn is anti-establishment, and they absolutely hate it. In my book, strong leadership is managing to achieve what he has in nine months, despite his own team constantly sticking the knife in his back at every opportunity. But it hasn't worked, and if it goes to a ballot (with his name on) then it won't work again.

It really doesn't matter if you think he's like a maths teacher as long as you agree with his principles. It's politics, not the X Factor. The Tories are winners because they don't care about anything but power. They are in it for themselves and their powerful friends that keep them in charge. Why would you want the Labour party to be more like that?

 

[peteblue]

I think you've summed up a lot of people's hesitance towards him actually, but I think you've got the wrong idea. He isn't London-centric, he's possibly the last person in parliament you could level that accusation at. He's someone who is fighting for the small towns that have had their industries ruined - see the Durham Miner's Gala last week for example. London-centrism stems from capitalism and is more associated with the neoliberalism of the Blair/Brown years.

The version of Labour he's pushing hasn't been seen for decades – people have been turned off by middle of the road politics, look at the last election. That's the approach the rebelling PLP want us to go back to. What failed so miserably with Brown and Miliband is nothing to do with Corbyn, and that's partly why he's proven to be so popular.

He's only unelectable if his own party keep telling people he is. Don't buy into what the media feed you, they think you're stupid. Corbyn is anti-establishment, and they absolutely hate it. In my book, strong leadership is managing to achieve what he has in nine months, despite his own team constantly sticking the knife in his back at every opportunity. But it hasn't worked, and if it goes to a ballot (with his name on) then it won't work again.

It really doesn't matter if you think he's like a maths teacher as long as you agree with his principles. It's politics, not the X Factor. The Tories are winners because they don't care about anything but power. They are in it for themselves and their powerful friends that keep them in charge. Why would you want the Labour party to be more like that?

What are these 'achievements' he's made in the last nine months......

 

[neil999]

Thought that myself ,she put herself up, somebody else does, is seen as a compromise candidate and gets elected.
In a bad way the labour party, Corbyn clearly no chance of winning a general election and surrounded by oafs like Abbot who have no appeal to most of the country, needs to have a good look at itself , evey man and his dog said Miliband was a liability a half decent leader that election was there for the taking, and this fella is even worse.
If we have an election they will get hammered, for the first time in my life I will not vote for them in a general election, most of my family and workmates have said the same, seems a have decent man but totally lacking leadership quality or charisma.

always been my arfument, if the country wont elect a leftist miliband..then and even more left corbyn has no chance

momentum are doing my head in

 

[Tubey]

I think you've summed up a lot of people's hesitance towards him actually, but I think you've got the wrong idea. He isn't London-centric, he's possibly the last person in parliament you could level that accusation at. He's someone who is fighting for the small towns that have had their industries ruined - see the Durham Miner's Gala last week for example. London-centrism stems from capitalism and is more associated with the neoliberalism of the Blair/Brown years.

The version of Labour he's pushing hasn't been seen for decades – people have been turned off by middle of the road politics, look at the last election. That's the approach the rebelling PLP want us to go back to. What failed so miserably with Brown and Miliband is nothing to do with Corbyn, and that's partly why he's proven to be so popular.

He's only unelectable if his own party keep telling people he is. Don't buy into what the media feed you, they think you're stupid. Corbyn is anti-establishment, and they absolutely hate it. In my book, strong leadership is managing to achieve what he has in nine months, despite his own team constantly sticking the knife in his back at every opportunity. But it hasn't worked, and if it goes to a ballot (with his name on) then it won't work again.

It really doesn't matter if you think he's like a maths teacher as long as you agree with his principles. It's politics, not the X Factor. The Tories are winners because they don't care about anything but power. They are in it for themselves and their powerful friends that keep them in charge. Why would you want the Labour party to be more like that?

Just in regards to the bold bit - sorry, but disagree completely. Corbyn is the dictionary definition of London-based student union socialism. Very few people in the UK find that approach appealing.

He is unelectable. That's not the party telling me that, it's my own brain - I can't vote for him, pretty much everyone I know can't vote for him, and I live in the safest Labour seat imaginable. That's how unelectable he is.

 

[Seanjd]

I broadly like Corbyn's politics, but politics often needs compromise to be successful. I can't support him being leader of the Labour because he makes it so easy to be ridiculed. Making McDonnell shadow chancellor, who then quotes the little red book in the commons, for example. How stupid can you get? Corbyn himself saying there should be no immigration cap at all. Although agreeing, and not wanting to get into a debate about immigration, it's just a stupid thing to say whether you agree with it or not given our current political landscape. He will never be successful, in my view, as a Labour leader. As much as I abhor his treatment in the media, the guy needs to move on.

 

[TheBlueGibbon]

I broadly like Corbyn's politics, but politics often needs compromise to be successful. I can't support him being leader of the Labour because he makes it so easy to be ridiculed. Making McDonnell shadow chancellor, who then quotes the little red book in the commons, for example. How stupid can you get? Corbyn himself saying there should be no immigration cap at all. Although agreeing, and not wanting to get into a debate about immigration, it's just a stupid thing to say whether you agree with it or not given our current political landscape. He will never be successful, in my view, as a Labour leader. As much as I abhor his treatment in the media, the guy needs to move on.

Didn't he say there couldn't be any migration cap whilst we were in the EU?

 

[Milkman]

Just in regards to the bold bit - sorry, but disagree completely. Corbyn is the dictionary definition of London-based student union socialism. Very few people in the UK find that approach appealing.

He is unelectable. That's not the party telling me that, it's my own brain - I can't vote for him, pretty much everyone I know can't vote for him, and I live in the safest Labour seat imaginable. That's how unelectable he is.

London-based student union socialism? I don't understand? Is that just a type of person you don't like?

 

[Milkman]

I broadly like Corbyn's politics, but politics often needs compromise to be successful. I can't support him being leader of the Labour because he makes it so easy to be ridiculed. Making McDonnell shadow chancellor, who then quotes the little red book in the commons, for example. How stupid can you get? Corbyn himself saying there should be no immigration cap at all. Although agreeing, and not wanting to get into a debate about immigration, it's just a stupid thing to say whether you agree with it or not given our current political landscape. He will never be successful, in my view, as a Labour leader. As much as I abhor his treatment in the media, the guy needs to move on.

Yeah, of course you've got to compromise a little. Trying to force him to resign isn't much of a compromise though is it?

 

[1966efc]

Corbyn is a very good constituency and fits in very well with the make up of that patch of north Islington.

Members of the Labour party need to answer two simple but fundamental questions:

What is Labour actually for?

How best can that be achieved?

I highlight 'Labour' as the edges of London Labour in particular are fluid with supporters of many sects dipping in and out as it suits them.

 

[Tubey]

London-based student union socialism? I don't understand? Is that just a type of person you don't like?

There's no real point explaining it really. If you can't see it, I don't think you ever will - until he's flattened at an election.

 

[edge]

Yeah, of course you've got to compromise a little. Trying to force him to resign isn't much of a compromise though is it?

Just realistic really; 9 pionts behind the tories, 76% of union members dont think he cant win an election, a majority want him to go now in this morning polls, going by the people in my job its higher than they are saying.
Other than a bigger party membership what has he done to take us further towards winning an election?
Its a bigger picture than his leadership, I do think he has been treated shabbily, but its the hopes of millions of people who want rid of the tory government that should take president, at the moment he is one of there best hopes of staying in power.
Needs to go, getting to sound more like he is in a bunker somewhere in London , telling everyone he can win the battle , while the war is lost outside, he stays on the party is finished as a credible party for the foreseeable future
Keep him ,keep the tories its that simple in my eyes.