Easy on the swears there matey
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
- Status
BernieWright13
Player Valuation: £15m
Did anyone really expect any different outcome? This is Liverpool Football Club we're talking about. Surely we know by now that normal rules don't apply
As if. Our players will give him hugs and kisses.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Yep. It settles nothing at all.
The push on Firmino - unpunished
The calling of Holgate a son of a whore - unpunished
The "insufficient evidence" - leaves the racism matter open and not closed
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Some quotes from RAWK - and quite correct on this FA statement imo:
DonkeyWan: "Insufficient evidence' is open to interpretation; it could be seen as "he did say something racist, but only Holgate heard him clearly, so we can't do anything about the incident." I would prefer if they had clearly stated "There is no evidence" or even better "Holgate misheard". "Insufficient evidence" suggests there was something to be concerned about and will fuel theconspiracy theorists and nutballs for months to come, i.e. the extremists that make the derby so toxic. No doubt there will be racist Firmino chants at the next game. This for me was a weak statement designed to purposely flip flop on a controversial issue."
Babu Yagu: "The term I have seen both in the US and in Brazil when accusations are made against the police or politicians is "cleared of any wrong doing". Not open to interpretation. Because they want to restore people's faith in the police force / government and they make it abundantly clear that no evidence supported the claim that was made, therefore the individual was cleared and did nothing wrong.
There has been no such attempts to clear Firmino here, to consider the implications of an open to interpretation statement on Firmino's character and image. He will now forever be another OJ Simpson to some. A racist who they never had the evidence to prove was guilty."
Red Berry: "My writing degree may never have led to the money spinning novel I had in my head; and whilst I am no analytical expert, for a statement that has, presumably, been thought over very carefully before being released, I'm honestly surprised at how vague it is in parts.
"No evidence" is not the same as "insufficient evidence". Like with that quote above. What does it even mean, "nobody directly heard" the alleged words? Why not just say, "nobody heard the alleged comments"? If you're confident it wasn't said, say you're confident. If you're not confident, say why."
Skeeve: "This 'no evidence' phrasing in the statement is nowhere near the same as innocent in the eyes of many."
DonkeyWan: "Insufficient evidence' is open to interpretation; it could be seen as "he did say something racist, but only Holgate heard him clearly, so we can't do anything about the incident." I would prefer if they had clearly stated "There is no evidence" or even better "Holgate misheard". "Insufficient evidence" suggests there was something to be concerned about and will fuel theconspiracy theorists and nutballs for months to come, i.e. the extremists that make the derby so toxic. No doubt there will be racist Firmino chants at the next game. This for me was a weak statement designed to purposely flip flop on a controversial issue."
Babu Yagu: "The term I have seen both in the US and in Brazil when accusations are made against the police or politicians is "cleared of any wrong doing". Not open to interpretation. Because they want to restore people's faith in the police force / government and they make it abundantly clear that no evidence supported the claim that was made, therefore the individual was cleared and did nothing wrong.
There has been no such attempts to clear Firmino here, to consider the implications of an open to interpretation statement on Firmino's character and image. He will now forever be another OJ Simpson to some. A racist who they never had the evidence to prove was guilty."
Red Berry: "My writing degree may never have led to the money spinning novel I had in my head; and whilst I am no analytical expert, for a statement that has, presumably, been thought over very carefully before being released, I'm honestly surprised at how vague it is in parts.
"No evidence" is not the same as "insufficient evidence". Like with that quote above. What does it even mean, "nobody directly heard" the alleged words? Why not just say, "nobody heard the alleged comments"? If you're confident it wasn't said, say you're confident. If you're not confident, say why."
Skeeve: "This 'no evidence' phrasing in the statement is nowhere near the same as innocent in the eyes of many."
Just providing an opportunity for Liverpool fans to get closer to their idols. Most of these modern footballers are out of touch with the fans. Surprised you don't think it's a thing to be praised.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Not enough evidence to prove he did say it, not sufficiently convinced by him to believe he didn't. RS claiming he is exonerated are clutching at straws. The FA statement seems to imply they think he did, but can't prove it. LFC acting like he's been through the ringer and is completely innocent is cringe worthy.
Never said it was Evertons fault mate, just that it was another example of our incredible and unending misfortune
That's you choosing to interpret to suit your own narrative/agenda. The only "evidence" any on us are aware of is the Holgate's claim. That is it! If you or anyone else are aware of any other "evidence", please feel free to share with us.
A couple of points; the tribalism from both sides here has been unreal. The amount of Evertonians certain of Firmino's guilt and Liverpool fans certain Holgate has made false claims, beggars belief.
Firmino may have made a racist slur, but there absolutely is no evidence of that. It would seem strange that Firmino would launch into a tirade in one language, then turn to English to utter one word (THAT word) to Holgate, that only Holgate would hear, but no-one else around hears, plus nothing picked up by lip-reading interpreters (Kenny's head being the way does not prove that Firmino said anything!). Maybe that did happen, but if you park tribalism aside and try to be neutral for a moment, it seems unlikely. None of us know the character of Firmino (as we don't know him personally), but he doesn't seem to be the nasty ####er Suarez was, and it would seem a lot more out of character in comparison to Suarez (IMHO).
The name of this thread says it all as to where Everton fans lie with this; guilty!
On the other hand, Liverpool fans trawling through Holgate's twitter account to find something on him is pathetic and irrelevant. Also, them saying that Holgate has clearly falsely accused Firmino of racism to avoid being sent off for the shove. Again. maybe it's true and maybe not, but again there is no evidence to support this. Again, none of us know the character of Holgate (as we don't know him personally), but to suggest he'd falsely claim something so serious to avoid sanctions on the pitch are ludicrous, given the facts we have.
On the balance of probabilities, from what we know, from the "evidence" we have (Holgate's accusation), the most likely outcome is that Holgate thought he heard Firmino say THE word, but misheard what was said. The 193 pages of mostly confirming Firmino's guilt on here, is a joke!
Maybe there's a reason why EFC have not come out and publicly backed Holgate here. Suggestions that you're scared to take Liverpool all the way on this because they're the media darlings (as a lot on here seem to think) are a bit misguided, give what happened to Suarez.
This is looking a lot like RAWK at the moment (maybe BAWG).
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Ha ha.
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
Cool, apart from one tiny point, the alleged racism took place AFTER Duane Dibley had used his lost in translation term of affection in Portuguese
Straightforward decisions have a tendency to go wrong in derbies. This time it was your turn. Holgate should have been booked, but that's all.
don't forget
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
The more savvy ones can see what most rational people see: Firmino was not charged not because he was found innocent, but because the weight of evidence fell short of charging him. I suspect the camera angles they gathered found something being said or mouthed by Firmino (at that point obscured by Kenny in the tv footage) but they were unable to categorically determine what it was that was said/mouthed.
Only that saved him and that is far from being deemed innocent.
- Status