Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

Status
Not open for further replies.
kev said:
On the contrary, any controversy about the penalty is quite rightly seen as a triviality compared to allegations of racism.
Click to expand...
You'e correct but I'm sure we can' discuss more than one thing using different channels. The holgategate enquiry can be done by different people than the diving penalty farce panel at the same time
 
f.t.r.s said:
it's part of their victim mentality, everytime they cock up they try and justify it with some bs.
The problem is their success. While they can be insufferable, entitled bells, the majority of proper kopites are bearable people.
It's the out of town fans who love the 'bantz' that throw the hillsborough card in.
How often do you see some random african/asian etc (not being racist, just click on any liverpool/everton related groups on facebook) with a club badge as their profile pic behind the death threat tweets etc?
Click to expand...
Or the American ones on Tumblr who support like three Premiership teams, and usually a Bundesliga and/or La Liga team as well. I wonder how many confessions Football Confessions will get calling Holgate a liar. One of the mods of that blog is a kopite and she banned me after another kopite whined about a confession I sent about the 'Everton wives run for your lives' joke. And I hadn't said that ALL Liverpool fans make that joke, but it is a thing that happens. Other teams' fans are fair game, especially Spurs fans and cules, but when it comes to Liverpool...it's like the time when one site was doing articles making fun of each EPL team that season and for the Liverpool one, they had to add a disclaimer saying 'it's not just you, Liverpool fans, we make fun of other teams'.

Cult.
 
TheFinnFan said:
I just leave it here,

Why didnt Madley book Holgate ?
Click to expand...

Honestly there’s multiple reasons for this. People trying to say it was “white guilt” are really reaching. It’s quite possible he didn’t properly see the full push. It’s possible he saw it and in the mayhem that followed totally forgot about it. It’s even more possible that once Holgate told him his complaint that the push was totally out of his mind hence why he went over to the fourth official to immediately report it. He was not in control of the situation at all at that point and probably just wanted play to resume ASAP. There’s no reason whatsoever that he couldn’t have booked Holgate, and no reason why he couldn’t have sent Firmino off if he heard anything that’s been alleged actually said- firmino would still have faced retrospective action and a lengthy ban. In match play all the ref can do is send a player off, he can’t dish out ten game bans there on the spot. All this talk he’s bottled it or was feeling guilty currently have no basis at all.

Wait for the report.
 

Deckard2049 said:
Honestly there’s multiple reasons for this. People trying to say it was “white guilt” are really reaching. It’s quite possible he didn’t properly see the full push. It’s possible he saw it and in the mayhem that followed totally forgot about it. It’s even more possible that once Holgate told him his complaint that the push was totally out of his mind hence why he went over to the fourth official to immediately report it. He was not in control of the situation at all at that point and probably just wanted play to resume ASAP. There’s no reason whatsoever that he couldn’t have booked Holgate, and no reason why he couldn’t have sent Firmino off if he heard anything that’s been alleged actually said- firmino would still have faced retrospective action and a lengthy ban. In match play all the ref can do is send a player off, he can’t dish out ten game bans there on the spot. All this talk he’s bottled it or was feeling guilty currently have no basis at all.

Wait for the report.
Click to expand...
Ive seen tweets and comments about "white guilt" and personally i think that is load of rubbish. Madley being white has nothing to do with this. Think Madley knew there was racial slurs made by Firminho. Knowing this he didnt act on Holgates push and book him. Thats the logical explanation imho.
 
MoutsGoat said:
I disagree, supply the information to the FA and say nothing, the time to talk is AFTER the verdict, class and dignity.
Click to expand...

'Talk' after the event.
When Niasse got a ban, even though there were others before who had 'earned the right to go down', we said nothing. We meekly accepted the 'punishment' without a word or words of why wasn't this or that incident looked at.
A week or so later Ramsay goes down and gets a penalty and nothing was really said by Dyche so Ramsay got away with it and Arsenal got 3 points instead of 1. There was not a peep out of our club about why wasn't the Ramsay penalty looked at like Niasse's. The inconsistency and therefore the injustice of retrospective action against Niasse was more evident with Ramsay. When have we ever spoke after an incident and we have been listened to? When have the FA came out and said 'Everton have shown really class and dignity and we apologise to them and their players and supporters for this or that incident that has gone against them'. The Clattenberg derby maybe?
Look at Wenger at the moment all hissy fits and having a go refs. Has he been punished every time? No. What will happen is that a ref will be too intimidated to give a correct decision against Arsenal and they will get an advantage. As has happened in the past most recently the Ramsay 'penalty'. Why do certain teams always get the advantage for them? Manu under Ferguson - was it 'class and dignity'? Doubt it. Was it intimidation of refs and the FA? Undoubtedly. People may say they don't show 'class and dignity' but they help their club gain an advantage and therefore less loses, more wins and more points.
We should do what other clubs do and moan, moan and moan even more if necessary otherwise we are at a disadvantage against certain clubs even before we go on the pitch. Saying nothing has not done us any favours up to now. It has allowed refs and the fa to take the easy way out and penalise our players and club because we have far too often not spoken out about the injustices against us.
Some clubs have a whole host of media pundits to stick up for them whilst we don't. Therefore it is up to the manager even more to highlight incidents including the one against Holgate on Friday at the time. It is up to the manager even more to make sure we are not at a disadvantage including our players, before we go onto the pitch. When asked on Friday after the game about Holgate, Allardyce should have said, 'there is no place in football for racism' followed by 'we are reporting an incident involving Mason Holgate'. That way the issue would be more difficult to brush under the carpet, as a lot of Evetonians think is going to happen. Holgate thinks he was racially abused and acted accordingly and it is up to the club to protect him and not allow it to be covered up. By Allardyce making it a live issue after the game would make that less likely rather than the tame response he gave.
On Friday night Allardyce said he thought it was not a penalty. I take it that the FA will now look at it? Even though all the pundits including Murphy said it wasn't a penalty. Has the club issued a statement today in the 'class and dignity' way 'after the event' questioning why the FA are not looking at Lallana's penalty? And if the FA are not going to take action pointing out the inconsistency of the Niasse decision compared to Lallana's dive?
It is up to the manager to be on his toes so we are not taken advantage of. It is also up to the club to speak up forcefully when we are unduly penalised compared to other clubs when incidents happen e.g Niasse compared to Ramsay or other penalty incidents that went before and since, Lallana's. If the speaking out 'after the verdict' is 'class and dignity' it hasn't got us anywhere so far. Maybe a change of tact is needed.
 
hullefc said:
'Talk' after the event.
When Niasse got a ban, even though there were others before who had 'earned the right to go down', we said nothing. We meekly accepted the 'punishment' without a word or words of why wasn't this or that incident looked at.
A week or so later Ramsay goes down and gets a penalty and nothing was really said by Dyche so Ramsay got away with it and Arsenal got 3 points instead of 1. There was not a peep out of our club about why wasn't the Ramsay penalty looked at like Niasse's. The inconsistency and therefore the injustice of retrospective action against Niasse was more evident with Ramsay. When have we ever spoke after an incident and we have been listened to? When have the FA came out and said 'Everton have shown really class and dignity and we apologise to them and their players and supporters for this or that incident that has gone against them'. The Clattenberg derby maybe?
Look at Wenger at the moment all hissy fits and having a go at the FA. Has he been punished every time? No. What will happen is that a ref will be too intimidated to give a correct decision against Arsenal and they will get an advantage. As has happened in the past most recently the Ramsay 'penalty'. Why do certain teams always get the advantage for them? Manu under Ferguson - was it 'class and dignity'? Doubt it. Was it intimidation of refs and the FA? Undoubtedly. People may say they don't show 'class and dignity' but they help their club gain an advantage and therefore less loses, more wins and more points.
We should do what other clubs do and moan, moan and moan even more if necessary otherwise we are at a disadvantage against certain clubs even before we go on the pitch. Saying nothing has not done us any favours up to now. It has allowed refs and the fa to take the easy way out and penalise our players and club because we have far too often not spoken out about the injustices against us.
Some clubs have a whole host of media pundits to stick up for them whilst we don't. Therefore it is up to the manager even more to highlight incidents including the one against Holgate on Friday at the time. It is up to the manager even more to make sure we are not at a disadvantage including our players, before we go onto the pitch. When asked on Friday after the game about Holgate, Allardyce should have said, 'there is no place in football for racism' followed by 'we are reporting an incident involving Mason Holgate'. That way the issue would be more difficult to brush under the carpet, as a lot of Evetonians think is going to happen. Holgate thinks he was racially abused and acted accordingly and it is up to the club to protect him and not allow it to be covered up. By Allardyce making it a live issue after the game would make that less likely rather than the tame response he gave.
On Friday night Allardyce said he thought it was not a penalty. I take it that the FA will now look at it? Even though all the pundits including Murphy said it wasn't a penalty. Has the club issued a statement today in the 'class and dignity' way 'after the event' questioning why the FA are not looking at Lallana's penalty? And if the FA are not going to take action pointing out the inconsistency of the Niasse decision compared to Lallana's dive?
It is up to the manager to be on his toes so we are not taken advantage of. It is also up to the club to speak up forcefully when we are unduly penalised compared to other clubs when incidents happen e.g Niasse compared to Ramsay or other penalty incidents that went before and since. If the speaking out 'after the verdict' is 'class and dignity' it hasn't got us anywhere so far. Maybe a change of tact is needed.
Click to expand...
They had two penalties awarded against them today.
 
TheFinnFan said:
Ive seen tweets and comments about "white guilt" and personally i think that is load of rubbish. Madley being white has nothing to do with this. Think Madley knew there was racial slurs made by Firminho. Knowing this he didnt act on Holgates push and book him. Thats the logical explanation imho.
Click to expand...

But if he knew racial slurs were made why didn’t he send him off? It’s perfectly acceptable for him to do so and it wouldn’t effect any further punishment firmino would face. In fact it would have cleared the issue up entirely if the referee, the authority figure on the pitch and most impartial person on there had acted. Unless of course he legitimately didn’t hear anything which is what he seems to be saying to Jagielka at one point.

I think it’s a big claim to say he heard it and didn’t act. For me it’s more possible that firmino said so much in Portuguese that Madley genuinely didn’t understand a lot being said, hence why he couldn’t send him off and hence why he’s deferred this to the FA. If the obvious N bomb was dropped I cannot believe that any referee would willingly just ignore this. His employers would be all over him if he did.
 

royalblue66 said:
They had two penalties awarded against them today.
Click to expand...

And next week or the week after, they will get a penalty when they shouldn't and have a penalty not given against them when they should have. Wenger knows how it works, 'refs are there to be got at' and he will consistently do that to gain an advantage for his club. Two points against Burnley already secured and no ban for Ramsay. He's been banned for 3 games but that wont stop him.
 
hullefc said:
And next week or the week after, they will get a penalty when they shouldn't and have a penalty not given against them when they should have. Wenger knows how it works, 'refs are there to be got at' and he will consistently do that to gain an advantage for his club. Two points against Burnley already secured and no ban for Ramsay. He's been banned for 3 games but that wont stop him.
Click to expand...
I think everyone in the game is fed up.seeing Wenger moaning, and at this moment in time he is not doing himself any favours, I reckon he will be gone end of season, has become an embarrassment to the club.
 
Deckard2049 said:
Honestly there’s multiple reasons for this. People trying to say it was “white guilt” are really reaching. It’s quite possible he didn’t properly see the full push. It’s possible he saw it and in the mayhem that followed totally forgot about it. It’s even more possible that once Holgate told him his complaint that the push was totally out of his mind hence why he went over to the fourth official to immediately report it. He was not in control of the situation at all at that point and probably just wanted play to resume ASAP. There’s no reason whatsoever that he couldn’t have booked Holgate, and no reason why he couldn’t have sent Firmino off if he heard anything that’s been alleged actually said- firmino would still have faced retrospective action and a lengthy ban. In match play all the ref can do is send a player off, he can’t dish out ten game bans there on the spot. All this talk he’s bottled it or was feeling guilty currently have no basis at all.

Wait for the report.
Click to expand...
WTF whose saying that. I'm sure any referee would of probably let him off, if he had heard a black player being racially abused. Mind you the people that are probably kopites, so I shouldn't be surprised really. They'll probably start bringing up some other irrelevant garbage, such as the fan who got banned for calling Saha a useless French so and so. Or they will say their racist abuse is a reaction to Heysel.
 
Deckard2049 said:
But if he knew racial slurs were made why didn’t he send him off? It’s perfectly acceptable for him to do so and it wouldn’t effect any further punishment firmino would face. In fact it would have cleared the issue up entirely if the referee, the authority figure on the pitch and most impartial person on there had acted. Unless of course he legitimately didn’t hear anything which is what he seems to be saying to Jagielka at one point.

I think it’s a big claim to say he heard it and didn’t act. For me it’s more possible that firmino said so much in Portuguese that Madley genuinely didn’t understand a lot being said, hence why he couldn’t send him off and hence why he’s deferred this to the FA. If the obvious N bomb was dropped I cannot believe that any referee would willingly just ignore this. His employers would be all over him if he did.
Click to expand...
Madley is a poor ref and bottled it. He also should have book Holgate but didnt. I think he is gutted that this became so big and Didnt stay inside the game. He basically did try to level things by not booking Holgate and hush this slur away. Failed miserably imo.

But this will probs turn against us...Lfc will pull all the strings
 
Wonder how long this will take before some official news, been 48 hours now and zip, have they issued some kind of D Notice or what
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Register
Back
Top