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How stupid are Manu?

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SerenityNigh said:
So Chelsea's real wages could be considerably higher, but much of it was off the books for that year.
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Chelsea seem to treat most of their loanees as investments rather than players who one day will play for the first team. The only loanee I can think of who has made it into the first team during Mourinho's tenure is Courtois.

So it depends what you mean about real wages, the salareis of the players currently winning the league or the total clubs assets. If you included the players on "loan" to Vitesse Arnhem in Chelsea's figures , should you also include the wages of the players in New York and Melbourne in City's figures, especially given what has happened with Lampard? They have almost as many younger players out on loan as Chelsea, 14 iirc, so a similar accounting would bump both clubs wages figures up.

United have Nani and Hernandez out on loan, think they are paying all of Nani's salary which is a bit odd along, with several youth players.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jan/12/lionel-messi-manchester-united-move-barcelona

Lionel Messi has alerted Manchester United to his potential availability by casting doubt over his future at Barcelona, with the Argentina forward admitting he does not know where he will be playing next year. United are the only English club that could afford to buy Messi, particularly if Barcelona were to demand his €250m (£195m) buyout fee in one payment, which would be likely.

Although Manchester City have explored bringing the 27-year-old from Barcelona and retain an interest in him, Uefa’s financial fair play rules mean the champions would struggle to generate enough revenue and have the requisite cash reserves to buy the four-times world player of the year.

This is not the case at United, where Louis van Gaal has been assured there is no limit on the transfer budget. Ed Woodward, the executive vice-chairman, stated in July: “Whether it’s a [world] record or not doesn’t really resonate with us. What resonates is an elite player that the manager wants who is going to be a star for Manchester United.” Alongside the buyout clause is Messi’s five-year contract, agreed last May, worth £16.3m a season. When this salary is factored in, the total cost of any deal for his transfer would be in the region of an eye-watering £275m.
 
LinekersLegs said:
Chelsea seem to treat most of their loanees as investments rather than players who one day will play for the first team. The only loanee I can think of who has made it into the first team during Mourinho's tenure is Courtois.

So it depends what you mean about real wages, the salareis of the players currently winning the league or the total clubs assets. If you included the players on "loan" to Vitesse Arnhem in Chelsea's figures , should you also include the wages of the players in New York and Melbourne in City's figures, especially given what has happened with Lampard? They have almost as many younger players out on loan as Chelsea, 14 iirc, so a similar accounting would bump both clubs wages figures up.

United have Nani and Hernandez out on loan, think they are paying all of Nani's salary which is a bit odd along, with several youth players.
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I think it's worth consideration, given the large number of players that Chelsea loans out. If all players are on the wage bill, it's worth comparing the fact that Chelsea (which seem to be smarter than most clubs) don't pay all their salaries. Few other clubs do much in the loan market; Lampard's case is interesting, given the new details and obfuscation over exactly whom he has contracted with to play his football.
 
SerenityNigh said:
I think it's worth consideration, given the large number of players that Chelsea loans out. If all players are on the wage bill, it's worth comparing the fact that Chelsea (which seem to be smarter than most clubs) don't pay all their salaries. Few other clubs do much in the loan market; Lampard's case is interesting, given the new details and obfuscation over exactly whom he has contracted with to play his football.
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The whole loan system has some very lax rules and reporting requirements from what I can tell, especially considerig it seems to have been increasing used for the movement of players who aren't in the development stage any more - Barry, Cleverley, Nani, Hernandez, Falcao, Negredo, Lampard, Alderweirld, Moses, Song in the last few months alone.

Would be interesting if there were seperate line items in the financials of all clubs detailing the total salaries of these loans before and after loan fees/wage reimbursements. Especially if split between the over 21 age group and those under 21 whose loans in theory have more to do with training up a young player.
 

Brad McEachern said:
This. Despite of what I said above, Moyes never had any chance MU because he wasn't a big name with any managerial honours on his resume. Going to the MU fan sites to see what their opinion was of the hire and most of the comments were negative because he wasn't Mourhino, Klopp or De Boer (which were the three managers I keep seeing come up in what the fans there wanted). As a result of the negative first opinion of the man, he never had a shot to start with.

Although to be fair, that fan base is made up of glory hunters and morons who wouldn't know a good manager to start with. For how much success whiskey nose brought to that club, if it was up to the fanbase he would of gotten the sack in 1989.

I would of been in favor of that though.
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I disagree. The Utd fans gave him loads of support early on and even up to the point he was sacked. Fergie's "you have to support your manager" was often recited. It was the players not the fans.

It also didn't help that last season the top 7 teams where all scoring ridiculous points. If he had of stayed in the CL places like LVG has with the same points everything would have been fine. Certain players would have still been against him but he would have kept his job and had the chance to get rid of them at the end of the season.
 
Tbh they would be daft to spend 50m on him given when he has shown so far
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ited-end-season-claims-Faustino-Asprilla.html

Colombian legend Faustino Asprilla claims that Radamel Falcao’s relationship with Louis van Gaal is ‘broken’ and his compatriot will leave Manchester United when his loan from Monaco runs out at the end of the season. Falcao was said to be stunned when he was axed from United’s 18-man squad to face Southampton on Sunday after starting the previous five games, and held talks with Van Gaal at Carrington on Monday. It has raised serious doubts over United’s intention to go through with a permanent £52million deal, with Falcao’s agent Jorge Mendes admitting that the 28-year-old might have to go elsewhere for regular first-team football.
 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30834875
"Manchester United are still to agree contracts with youngsters Paddy McNair and Tyler Blackett.

McNair and Blackett have been given opportunities this season mainly due to injuries to senior defenders Jonny Evans, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling and Marcos Rojo. But McNair, who was called into Northern Ireland senior squad by coach Michael O'Neill for the Euro 2016 qualifier against Romania in November, did reject an initial offer.

Midfield prospect Andreas Pereira, 19, another academy graduate, is out of contract at the end of the season and in the same position."

Think Wilson is also out of contract in the summer. Might be worth considering if they don't extend their contracts , especially Wilson and McNair who dealt with Lukaku. Guess United are going to continue their recent Galaticos approach.
 
Been quite a shift in opinions on redcafe about LVG since the New Year, bit similar to how there was a quick slide in their support of Moyes at the same stage of the season.

Might be a blip but it is not just online - according the the Guarian match report

"United were a convoluted mess for much of the first half and the away end was verging on mutiny as chants of “4-4-2” and “Attack! Attack! Attack!” floated through the west London air. United were sterile in possession, the ball was given away with monotonous regularity in dangerous positions and their muddled thinking was encapsulated by the sight of Phil Jones taking a couple of corners and Neil Swarbrick, the referee, penalising Antonio Valencia for a foul throw."
 

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