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How stupid are Manu?

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Ashtonian said:
5th or 6th this season. They havent got the consistency and the system doesnt work but Gaal wont be able to get it to gel in time for a run itno the top 4 i dont think. Remember there are teams who are waiting for consistency to kick in and then they will do well, us gunners, them alot (i hope not), spurs, city etc

They have the attack to win the league, and the defence tactics to get rlegated. Take your pick lol
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I'd say Liverpool have more fundamental problems in their system than United do, both have their weaknesses in defence but as you point out at least Man Utd have players who can get goals if fit. Spurs are an interesting one as I thought they would do better but it is taking Pochettino ages to sort out their system and apart from Kane their strikers aren't scoring. I've more faith that Utd will get 3rd than Spurs will get the 5th I originally predicted they would get!

As you say the problem for us, City and Arsenal seems more one of consistency but two games a week hinders the ability to get that, think that is a bit advantage for Utd similar to how it was for us and Liverpool last season.
 
Michael Cox with interesting comments on the character of Manchester United. I would suggest he eviscerates them, but per his comments there seems to be nothing that remains of sufficient substance to eviscerate.

Danny Welbeck exemplifies Manchester United's loss of character

Danny Welbeck's transfer from Manchester United to Arsenal this summer proved to be a controversial topic at Old Trafford. On the pitch, Welbeck is an unusual player who divides opinion, but his departure seemed more significant in a symbolic sense.

Gary Neville, for example, admitted he was "struggling to understand the logic behind the deal in two or three ways," but many United supporters countered that Welbeck was merely a fourth-choice striker. Behind double Golden Boot-winner Robin van Persie, third-all-time record goal scorer Wayne Rooney and exciting new arrival Radamel Falcao, Welbeck wouldn't have started many games up front.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in between -- but Neville's understanding of wider circumstances at Old Trafford is crucial to explaining why United need players like Welbeck.

At Arsenal, Welbeck is a key centre-forward. Since moving to London, he has been deployed permanently in his favoured position and has been in good goal-scoring form for both club and country. It's obvious United fans prefer their own centre-forward options, but that misses the point. At Manchester United he was rarely first-choice but was always a key player, and that is why Sir Alex Ferguson always got the best from his squads.

Welbeck is from a long line of Ferguson-era players who offered similar qualities. While the once-in-a-lifetime Class of '92 boasted outstanding footballers like Ryan Giggs, David Beckham and Paul Scholes, these weren't necessarily typical of the footballers the academy produced. More typical were the likes of Welbeck, John O'Shea, Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, Wes Brown and Darren Fletcher. These weren't outrageously gifted footballers, but they were very good footballers who were moulded into hardworking, versatile, intelligent players with the right attitude -- and they came to embody the club.

After all, United have never really been a team of world-class superstars, which made this summer's splurge so unusual. They've often had excellent players, certainly, but United have never been about individualism. Compare United and Arsenal throughout the Ferguson-Wenger era, and for every Cristiano Ronaldo there was a Thierry Henry, for every Eric Cantona a Dennis Bergkamp, for every David Beckham a Robert Pires, for every Roy Keane a Patrick Vieira -- players of comparable ability. What United always had, however, was a reliable set of squad players, Manchester United players through and through. They embodied the club.

These players were often better than they were given credit for. O'Shea, for example, eventually became a jack-of-all-trades utility man for United, but upon breaking into the team he looked genuinely top-class, a commanding footballer capable of anchoring the midfield or leading the defence. Brown was injury-prone but a faultless defender at his peak, and superb in the 2007-08 European Cup-winning side. Butt was once named by Pele as the most outstanding player at the 2002 World Cup, a bizarre nomination but nevertheless evidence of Butt's quality. Neville surprised many with his leadership and consistency at Everton, too. The versatile, hardworking backup players weren't always academy products -- Park Ji-Sung and Quinton Fortune belong in this category, too -- but the fact that United produced so many gave the club its identity.

The club, like these players, would sometimes fail to convince, but would always get the job done. Wenger's Arsenal have won the title only when they've unquestionably had the best starting XI in the league. Ferguson's United sometimes won the title when others seemed better-equipped, partly because of the homegrown backups.

Ferguson would often summon them for a specific task in a big game -- Fletcher, for example, was a brilliant tactical weapon in European games. Intriguingly, these "do a job" players often excelled against Arsenal -- remember O'Shea's glorious chip at Highbury, or the way Wenger kept getting frustrated with Fletcher, or the way Neville played brilliantly against Arsenal in 2002 when Roy Keane was suspended, allowing Juan Veron and Paul Scholes to drive forward and score the goals?

That's the on-pitch benefit, but there's also an off-field factor, too. Imagine arriving at Manchester United as a new signing, or coming through the ranks at the club and being involved with the first team and sitting next to someone like O'Shea. You'd admire the genius of the creative players, the longevity of the elder statesman, the passion of the leaders. But you'd also realise the commitment, determination and professionalism required simply to be a bit-part player. That's the standard of the guys who don't even play.

Many clubs lack that culture -- Ferguson's United boasted resilience that other big clubs can only dream of. Take Manchester City: They're not short of superstars, but they're certainly short of reliable, professional academy products. The wayward careers of Joey Barton, Stephen Ireland, Micah Richards and Michael Johnson illustrate it's about attitude rather than pure talent. These players should have provided the backbone of the City squad throughout the transition to a top-class side; instead, they're wondering what might have been.

There's a huge intangible part of Ferguson's success at Manchester United. It remains difficult to explain precisely how, or why, he was such a successful manager over such a long period, but the contribution of these underrated players shouldn't be underestimated.

How does this relate to Welbeck? Well, because under Ferguson, Welbeck was relatively happy playing a minor role. He was, admittedly, a regular during 2011-12, but he was relegated to the bench by Robin van Persie's arrival. Welbeck often said he wanted to play up front, but there was little suggestion that he was determined to leave. He was still doing a job -- whether it was tracking an opposition full-back, nullifying a deep-lying playmaker, or sometimes simply playing his natural game and scoring goals.

Then, by the end of the first post-Ferguson season, Welbeck was insistent: He was leaving. He didn't wait to discover David Moyes' replacement or want assurances about his future. Presumably no one, to his mind, could re-create the environment Ferguson guaranteed. Louis van Gaal could have done with a hardworking, disciplined player like Welbeck -- remember the manager's use of Dirk Kuyt at the World Cup? That deployment showed van Gaal's appreciation for a versatile, hardworking, not-prolific-but-bloody-useful-and-versatile semi-striker.

Therefore, dismissing Welbeck's value to Manchester United merely because he wouldn't have been a regular misunderstands the situation. Even more seriously, it misunderstands a massive part of United's success over the past quarter of a century. Players such as Welbeck, as much as the outright superstars, define Manchester United.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-star-ander-herrera-4715790
Ander Herrera is part of a probe into alleged match-fixing and illegal payments in Spain. According to Spanish reports, prosecutors will next week file court papers naming Manchester United’s £28million midfield signing from Athletic Bilbao as part of their investigation.

The Spain international, who joined United last June, will be required to fly over and give evidence at the court in Valencia.
If found guilty he could face a ban or even jail. The alleged match-fixing is tied to Herrera’s time at his first club, Real Zaragoza.
 
You'd be surprised what goes on in la liga. Won't name names but there is one who played for the national team back in the days who has organized several fixed games in la liga
 
LinekersLegs said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-star-ander-herrera-4715790
Ander Herrera is part of a probe into alleged match-fixing and illegal payments in Spain. According to Spanish reports, prosecutors will next week file court papers naming Manchester United’s £28million midfield signing from Athletic Bilbao as part of their investigation.

The Spain international, who joined United last June, will be required to fly over and give evidence at the court in Valencia.
If found guilty he could face a ban or even jail. The alleged match-fixing is tied to Herrera’s time at his first club, Real Zaragoza.
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If that gets proven of match fixing he could get a 5 year ban.

Tony Kay got a 7 year ban.

We can't have anyone involved in match fixing in the game whatsoever
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...is-van-Gaal-s-bottom-half-Premier-League.html

Brian Clough famously used to say his England goalkeeper Peter Shilton was worth 18 points a season when Nottingham Forest were winning league titles and European Cups. Well, David de Gea could beat even that – on current form he is going to earn Manchester United an extra 24 points in this campaign.

In the last two months, De Gea has helped turn likely defeats against Everton and Arsenal into victories, and enabled them to draw with Chelsea and beat Stoke City.
 
United supporter here (I come in peace).

We're doing ok at the moment - would like to see how any other club in the league would cope with 43 injuries since August.

LVG is getting us playing again - 3rd or 4th finish for us.
 

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