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Hypothetical: We get a new manager - what is their first move?

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and yet the evidence you have provided to support this argument comes across as very flimsy.

indeed you seem to be saying that moyes and martinez are actually on a par reading back through your posts.

Moyes inherited a team that was fighting relegation and turned it into a team that routinely finishes in the top 6 and out performs teams who have much bigger wage bills and so presumably better players.

Martinez inherited a team who were about midtable and turned it into a team that fights relegation and only finishes above teams with smaller wage bills and so presumably worse players. And QPR.
 
Moyes inherited a team that was fighting relegation and turned it into a team that routinely finishes in the top 6 and out performs teams who have much bigger wage bills and so presumably better players.

Martinez inherited a team who were about midtable and turned it into a team that fights relegation and only finishes above teams with smaller wage bills and so presumably worse players. And QPR.

They pay bottom of the league wages - they finish near the bottom. We pay middle of the table wages - we finish middle of the table.

I'm interested in Martinez from the standpoint of being given a free reign at Wigan, which is what he will pretty much have here - not many managers can claim that type of experience.
 
Moyes inherited a team that was fighting relegation and turned it into a team that routinely finishes in the top 6 and out performs teams who have much bigger wage bills and so presumably better players.

Martinez inherited a team who were about midtable and turned it into a team that fights relegation and only finishes above teams with smaller wage bills and so presumably worse players. And QPR.

Don't think he really had a choice in selling Valencia, N'Zogbia, Moses and losing Rodallega.

Strange that you're placing blame on him tbh. If the owners had allowed him to keep those players i could easily see them being midtable.

Moyes came in and yeah, he had to sell Rooney, but he then went and spend £30m. Then he spent £4m, then the season after that £10m, and finally £6m. It is only in the last three seasons that he's been strapped for transfer money.

Lets not pretend that Moyes didn't have cash to take the team from bottom half to top 8, because he did.

In comparison, Martinez came in and spent £6m, but lost Cattermole and Valencia. Then he spent £7m and it would seem made a mistake with Boselli. Go back though and you'll see some Boselli type purchases on Moyes' record too. Last season he spent -£2m and lost one of his best players in N'Zogbia. Most recently he's lost another two of his best players and not been given cash to replace them, but has seemingly made a good find in Kone.

Some managers will do better with limited funds than others. I'm sure there are plenty of other managers who would struggle to match Moyes' efficiency in the transfer market. But if Moyes had taken over Wigan instead of Martinez and been given -£11m net spend over three seasons i'm not convinced he'd have them finishing much higher than they do now.
 
The wage bill is a big deal, I won't argue but the thing is Wigan finish about where you'd expect them to be in terms of wages. They pay about the 16th most in the league and finish about 16th. So their players are about as good as they think they are.

We pay about the 10th and finish 7th. We get more out of our players then their agents think their worth. That is because we have a good manager and wigan don't.

When you're 16th in wages though, and you're supposed to finish 16th then it's quite easy for a team coming up to overachieve meaning that it's easy for a team like Wigan to go down. He's not a great manager, but he's decent and just because he's not as good as Moyes doesn't mean that he's a bad manager.
 

But again finishing 17th is easier than finishing 5th because you're competing not only against worse players but also worse managers and poorer clubs.

Moyes spent more money yes, but his rivals spent vastly more than Martinez's rivals.

If you judge the standard of a clubs players by the wage bill they're getting then the standard of a clubs manager is the difference between their wage position in the league and their actual position in the league. Moyes's Everton normally finished higher than the wage bill would dicate, (so he gets his players performing better then the market thinks they should) Martinez's Wigan don't.
 

First thing is to say something inspirational, Moyes became a multi millionaire with 10 yrs unfettered control for saying "Peoples club".

Martinez is the only half decent option because he wins the important games.

Saying keeping Wigan up is easy is a joke as is the comparison between Moyes taking over a squad perfectly capable of survival with a gift of over 20 million quid in the form of Rooney, completely different circumstances.

You'd be hard put to name a manager in our leagues who has made a difference comparable to what he did at Swansea, using Wigan as a stick to beat him with as Brennan points out is ludicrous.
 
It was Kenny Jacket who turned around Swansea, though given he doesn't have a foriegn name he hasn't got the credit for it. Since then, the other managers (Martinez, Sousa, Rodgers, laudrup) have just kept up his good work.

Jacket got them out of the fourth flight and into and around the promotion palces out of the third flight.

Martinez got them out of the third flight and into and around the promotion places out of the second flight.

Rodgers got them into the first flight and into and around midtable.
 
Martinez is nto a good manager.

The only person who thinks he is is dave whelan, who also said steve bruce and earlier paul jewell where the best up and coming managers around.

Martinez buys crap players, plays the pointless inefffective possession football which moyes adopted at the start of last season, and has still not worked out a plan b for when his rubbish tactic fails.

Martinez would be my last choice
 
Martinez is nto a good manager.

The only person who thinks he is is dave whelan, who also said steve bruce and earlier paul jewell where the best up and coming managers around.

Martinez buys crap players, plays the pointless inefffective possession football which moyes adopted at the start of last season, and has still not worked out a plan b for when his rubbish tactic fails.

Martinez would be my last choice

And tens of thousands of Swansea fans.
 
Bookies have it Martinez 11/10. Round 5/1. Neville 6/1. Coyle 7/1. Hughes 8/1

They don't get it wrong too often

nothing there to inspire me name or pricewise

I would like to see Big Dunc and Sheedy, I don't know if they would be any good, but whoever you get will be a bit of a gamble.

So why not.
 

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