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Is Sam that bad?

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Lanolin said:
I just don't like the idea of praising Allardyce and saying we should be thankful that he's kept us up when I just don't see why people were panicking in the first place.
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Worst defence in the league when Moshiri made the decision to go with Allardyce with 28 goals conceded. We got taken apart by a Southampton side that until last week where they beat West Brom, didn't win a single game in the league after beating us in late November. 2 months without winning a league game and we got beaten 4-1 by them.

The evidence against the team's attitude and defensive organisation is damning when you consider this. We played Atalanta at Goodison, who hadn't won a single away game all season and they put 5 past us. The side we put out was not a team full of kids, it had Robles, Williams, Martina, Keane, Rooney, Mirallas, Klassen in it and both Davies and Sandro have played a significant amount of games at the top level. Where was the professional pride from those players? Atalanta were about 9th at the time too.

Our confidence was at rock bottom, the players attitude was a disgrace and we had a diabolical defence in terms of organisation and performances.
 
Lanolin said:
Saying one of these 'phoneys' with a fancy European sounding name couldn't have kept up a team which wasn't even in the relegation zone is quite xenophobic mate yeah, I won't be withdrawing that.[
Lanolin said:
Saying one of these 'phoneys' with a fancy European sounding name couldn't have kept up a team which wasn't even in the relegation zone is quite xenophobic mate yeah, I won't be withdrawing that.
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No, saying we can't have an English manager is quite racist - mate
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EFC78 said:
When Allardyce was officially appointed (before the West Ham game) we were 2 points ahead of the relegation zone in 17th. We had just been beaten 5-1 by Atalanta at Goodison and 4-1 away at Southampton who now sit in the relegation zone. At that point, we had just lost 5 games in 7 under Unsworth and having conceded 28 goals, had conceded the most goals in the league. For comparison, West Ham and Stoke had conceded 26, Palace 25, West Brom 19, and Swansea 15.

After the West Ham game was when he took over his first game (Huddersfield) so going into the Huddersfield game we were 5 points ahead of the drop, not 8. After beating West Ham 4-0, they had conceded 30 goals, and Stoke 29, ourselves 28 (3rd most)

Trying to make out like things weren't going that badly for us is just not true. We were terrible defensively and were getting beaten comfortably by average to poor sides. The confidence was at rock bottom and Moshiri knew he had to act which is why he brought in Allardyce as a short term measure (until the Summer or next).

We were 9 points off 7th after the West Ham game, and are now only 2 points off it. People can say if this, if that, but none of us know what would have happened so we can only deal with the facts available.
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EFC78 said:
Worst defence in the league when Moshiri made the decision to go with Allardyce with 28 goals conceded. We got taken apart by a Southampton side that until last week where they beat West Brom, didn't win a single game in the league after beating us in late November. 2 months without winning a league game and we got beaten 4-1 by them.

The evidence against the team's attitude and defensive organisation is damning when you consider this. We played Atalanta at Goodison, who hadn't won a single away game all season and they put 5 past us. The side we put out was not a team full of kids, it had Robles, Williams, Martina, Keane, Rooney, Mirallas, Klassen in it and both Davies and Sandro have played a significant amount of games at the top level. Where was the professional pride from those players? Atalanta were about 9th at the time too.

Our confidence was at rock bottom, the players attitude was a disgrace and we had a diabolical defence in terms of organisation and performances.
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I've already said above, this is what it comes back to every time 'BUT WE GOT BATTERED BY SOUTHAMPTON AND ATALANTA WE WERE GOING DOWN'. We're still getting battered aren't we? We've conceded 18 goals in our last 8 domestic games, exactly the same amount as we had conceded in the 8 games before Allardyce took over. There hasn't been an incredible turnaround, we've just picked up points by beating the same teams we've been beating all season, it really is that simple.

I can't stress enough that this isn't a criticism of the manager, he's doing what he was brought in to do, that's fine and I have no issue with it. Personally I didn't ever think we were going down, and I think the way the season has panned out backs that up, because we've done exactly what I said would happen back in November.
 
Lanolin said:
I've already said above, this is what it comes back to every time 'BUT WE GOT BATTERED BY SOUTHAMPTON AND ATALANTA WE WERE GOING DOWN'. We're still getting battered aren't we? We've conceded 18 goals in our last 8 domestic games, exactly the same amount as we had conceded in the 8 games before Allardyce took over. There hasn't been an incredible turnaround, we've just picked up points by beating the same teams we've been beating all season, it really is that simple.

I can't stress enough that this isn't a criticism of the manager, he's doing what he was brought in to do, that's fine and I have no issue with it. Personally I didn't ever think we were going down, and I think the way the season has panned out backs that up, because we've done exactly what I said would happen back in November.
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Firstly, I don't necessarily think we would have gone down, but there is no doubt in my mind that we would be feeling far more uncomfortable about our prospects of remaining in the league now if we hadn't have acted after the Southampton defeat. Yes ideally, we'd like a top European name whose won loads, but with us sat in 17th, that wasn't likely and we failed in our pursuit of Silva, so Allardyce was a credible candidate in the circumstances.

Your period of games is very biased towards the point you're trying to make as well, to claim we weren't in any sort of trouble. Firstly you used our last 8 games when our form is poor and we've conceded loads, which doesn't account for Allardyce's early period where he sorted out our defensive woes. You then decide only domestic games count in your 8 before he arrived so you can remove the embarrassing 5-1 and 3-0 demolitions in Europe.

Our 8 most recent games includes a run of fixtures against Arsenal (6th), Tottenham (5th), Liverpool (3rd) and Man United (2nd), whilst in the 8 fixtures you've chosen only include Chelsea and Arsenal. I'd also like to point out that no we're not 'still getting battered', apart from against the top 6 which happened before he came in. I won't deny our performances against Arsenal and Spurs weren't disgraceful but they were before he came in where we lost 3-0 at home to Spurs and 5-2 to Arsenal. However, the only game we have lost outside the top 6 since he's come here is Bournemouth, losing narrowly to a late goal. We're beating the average-poor sides now at Goodison (lost to Burnley at home before), and are not getting ripped apart by relegation candidates like Southampton.
 

I'll reserve judgement until after the next 2 games. 2 away games against Watford and Burnley should be 6 points if we've improved enough. If not then he hasn't improved us at all and don't see the point in keeping him.
 
Lanolin said:
I've already said above, this is what it comes back to every time 'BUT WE GOT BATTERED BY SOUTHAMPTON AND ATALANTA WE WERE GOING DOWN'. We're still getting battered aren't we? We've conceded 18 goals in our last 8 domestic games, exactly the same amount as we had conceded in the 8 games before Allardyce took over. There hasn't been an incredible turnaround, we've just picked up points by beating the same teams we've been beating all season, it really is that simple.

I can't stress enough that this isn't a criticism of the manager, he's doing what he was brought in to do, that's fine and I have no issue with it. Personally I didn't ever think we were going down, and I think the way the season has panned out backs that up, because we've done exactly what I said would happen back in November.
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Yes we are getting battered in some games, but as previously pointed out that's the players koeman bought.

I think post the Southampton game most supporters would of settled for 9th and zero chance of relegation at this point in time no matter who the manager is.

The reason why some people are making the point about the Southampton game is that that was that the wake up call that something needed changing and fast.

Just stating that we would of been alright with another manager is just guess work, nobody knows if we would or would not.

Therefore my point is you say it is not your job to know which manager we need but you've made it your job to slag off the manager , for moving us up the table to safety. So why exactly do you dislike the fat brummy, your words.
 

truebluejersey said:
You could be right, but he was the best bit of garbage available at the time
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Wrong! Under no circumstances should Sam Allardyce ever be associated with this club.
Unfortunately the morons at the top made the nightmare become reality. Now it’s upto them to make the correct decision in the summer and get the fans back on side.
 
gaino92 said:
100% Tuchel would have been a better option. The gravy guzzler is here for a payday and nothing more. Absolute stain on this club
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JLW said:
Wrong! Under no circumstances should Sam Allardyce ever be associated with this club.
Unfortunately the morons at the top made the nightmare become reality. Now it’s upto them to make the correct decision in the summer and get the fans back on side.
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The morons at the top instigated the circumstance whereby Allardyce was the only option
 
truebluejersey said:
The morons at the top instigated the circumstance whereby Allardyce was the only option
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Well yes employing Koeman and Walsh was their first mistakes, but employing Allardyce on a SOS call in bleedin November was embarrassing. To think this fat mess has come in and saved us from relegation I simply won’t have,
 

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