Is Sam that bad?

[Lanolin]

Since Sam took over I think we have played thirteen games, as you say we were eight points clear then , we are the same today after playing Liverpool, Chelsea,Man Utd, Spurs and Arsenal in that time. The only team from the top six we didn't play was City.

I think your summary is correct, not terrible, not particularly good... best described as "safe" which is why I think he got the job.

Yes, and in the games before he took over the only team we hadn't played from the top 6 was Liverpool, so the fixture list is completely irrelevant.

I agree that he was brought in as a safe pair of hands, and he's done what was expected, no more, no less. I'm not someone who'll sit here saying he's the worst manager ever, it just really winds me up when people go on about how he's saved us or he deserves another season just because he hasn't monumentally buggered the whole thing up.

If we're even remotely serious about becoming a force again, we need to get rid at the end of the end of the season and bring someone in to start moving us forward. I can deal with that taking a few years as long as I can see tangible signs of progress, but sticking with Allardyce would simply be a year wasted in my view, and may even have a detrimental effect on our long term prospects.

 

[truebluejersey]

But i'm saying we were in no more danger than we are now. We were beating the sides below us at home, just as we are now. He's simply carried on doing what we were doing all along.

We won't be in the PL because of his management at all. We weren't in the relegation zone when he took over, and our form at that time wasn't in the bottom 3 either. There was, in other words, no reason to believe that we were in danger of being relegated, other than a gut feeling.

 

[evertonarntwe]

more importantly, not only do the fans not want him

what about the players? we've got players here who are the future who would love to see the back of him

Lookman & vlasic both very talented I reckon would benefit another manager

Holgate has been our best CB and yet the first opportunity to drop him he has so he can put the hoof merchants back at CB

cenk has just come in from a champions league team and were being told he cant settle in the league based on 1 and a half games,

he's not only damaging the fans relationship with the club he's damaging some of the players too

 

[Lanolin]

As somebody previously posted we made Southampton who are dire look like Barcelona, that coupled with the previous results home and away
resulted in the panic button being pressed

But that's all that anyone can ever come up with isn't it? 'We got hammered by Southampton, we were going down'. Some people will even throw the dead rubber against Atalanta in just to add a bit more weight to the argument.

It means absolutely nothing though does it? It's football, teams get hammered from time to time. If it happens a lot it's bad, but it's not proof you're doomed - as evidenced by the fact you don't think we're going down despite being beaten 4-0 and 5-1 in the last month. Chelsea have been battered by Watford and Bournemouth recently, Arsenal have been embarrassed by Swansea and Forest.

 

[truebluejersey]

But that's all that anyone can ever come up with isn't it? 'We got hammered by Southampton, we were going down'. Some people will even throw the dead rubber against Atalanta in just to add a bit more weight to the argument.

It means absolutely nothing though does it? It's football, teams get hammered from time to time. If it happens a lot it's bad, but it's not proof you're doomed - as evidenced by the fact you don't think we're going down despite being beaten 4-0 and 5-1 in the last month. Chelsea have been battered by Watford and Bournemouth recently, Arsenal have been embarrassed by Swansea and Forest.

Arsenal or Chelsea were not fourth from bottom when they got hammered. When we were hammered by Southampton we were showing relegation form.


We had a shaky defence, a midfield that was not arsed and nothing up top.

I don't think we are going down now because of our points total to date and our position in the league

just as an aside, which manager did you want ?

 

[Lanolin]

Arsenal or Chelsea were not fourth from bottom when they got hammered. When we were hammered by Southampton we were showing relegation form.


We had a shaky defence, a midfield that was not arsed and nothing up top.

I don't think we are going down now because of our points total to date and our position in the league

just as an aside, which manager did you want ?

As opposed to now? Our defence has become rock solid has it? The midfield's suddenly started putting a shift in? Are we scoring goals for fun?

You're missing the point, we're playing just the same as we were then (with the exception of Walcott making a difference) and getting the same results. We've just had more of the 'easy' games now where we've picked up points at home. We're still getting smashed when we play decent sides, we're still losing to average teams away - the only difference between the Southampton and Bournemouth games was Bournemouth didn't take as many of their plethora of chances.

All i'm saying is I had no doubt that we would beat the Swanseas, Huddersfields and West Hams of the world at home. And we did. You can tell me that we only did that because of Allardyce if you wish, but I'll tell you that the facts don't support that as we've been winning home games against sides below us all season.

It's difficult to say who you want as a fan I think. I'd have taken Silva, Tuchel or Fonseca but I don't know how easy it would be to have got any of them. That's obviously only the people who were linked with us too. I wouldn't have a clue if there's really highly rated coaches in the French, German, Dutch leagues etc because I don't follow them. It's not my job to be aware of the best available coaches, but it is the job of people within the club. I've said all along that to improve we need better coaching, and better tactical plans. A manager of 25 years going to Arsenal and setting up like we did there is just embarrassing, I expect a hell of a lot better than that.

 

[truebluejersey]

As opposed to now? Our defence has become rock solid has it? The midfield's suddenly started putting a shift in? Are we scoring goals for fun?

You're missing the point, we're playing just the same as we were then (with the exception of Walcott making a difference) and getting the same results. We've just had more of the 'easy' games now where we've picked up points at home. We're still getting smashed when we play decent sides, we're still losing to average teams away - the only difference between the Southampton and Bournemouth games was Bournemouth didn't take as many of their plethora of chances.

All i'm saying is I had no doubt that we would beat the Swanseas, Huddersfields and West Hams of the world at home. And we did. You can tell me that we only did that because of Allardyce if you wish, but I'll tell you that the facts don't support that as we've been winning home games against sides below us all season.

It's difficult to say who you want as a fan I think. I'd have taken Silva, Tuchel or Fonseca but I don't know how easy it would be to have got any of them. That's obviously only the people who were linked with us too. I wouldn't have a clue if there's really highly rated coaches in the French, German, Dutch leagues etc because I don't follow them. It's not my job to be aware of the best available coaches, but it is the job of people within the club. I've said all along that to improve we need better coaching, and better tactical plans. A manager of 25 years going to Arsenal and setting up like we did there is just embarrassing, I expect a hell of a lot better than that.

I think your missing the point 4th from bottom 9th

 

[Lanolin]

I think your missing the point 4th from bottom 9th

That's not really a point mate, it's just an assortment of words which doesn't quite make a sentence. I was talking specifically about the point I was making in my previous post, not saying you're missing the whole point of the argument, but you've managed to do it again so well done.

We play good teams we lose, we play rubbish teams at home we win. Simple. We've now played more rubbish teams than we had before, so we've moved up the table.

 

[truebluejersey]

That's not really a point mate, it's just an assortment of words which doesn't quite make a sentence. I was talking specifically about the point I was making in my previous post, not saying you're missing the whole point of the argument, but you've managed to do it again so well done.

We play good teams we lose, we play rubbish teams at home we win. Simple. We've now played more rubbish teams than we had before, so we've moved up the table. What a genius we have in charge.

Ok my point is this. prior to allardyces appointment it is my opinion that we were in trouble. I did not see were the next win was coming from and we were 4th from bottom. since allardyces appointment we are going to be in the premier league next season.

Tuchal et al all sounds good makes us sound as if we are going places romantic European sounding names and all that, load of sh-'te. On appointing one of these phoneys and realising just about now that we are going down we would have had allardyce in another corner battling against us.

Koeman bought a load of rubbish, wasted millions and left us in the s'-t.

I am not an allardyce fan but given the hand he was dealt, i.e. the players at his disposal I reckon that staying up this season is job done, not a
great achievement but job done after the mess that koeman left.

 

[EFC78]

Two days after Allardyce was appointed we were 8 points clear of the relegation zone. We're still 8 points clear of the relegation zone. If relegation was a 'very real threat' then, it still is now. It wasn't, and it isn't.

Since Sam took over I think we have played thirteen games, as you say we were eight points clear then

When Allardyce was officially appointed (before the West Ham game) we were 2 points ahead of the relegation zone in 17th. We had just been beaten 5-1 by Atalanta at Goodison and 4-1 away at Southampton who now sit in the relegation zone. At that point, we had just lost 5 games in 7 under Unsworth and having conceded 28 goals, had conceded the most goals in the league. For comparison, West Ham and Stoke had conceded 26, Palace 25, West Brom 19, and Swansea 15.

After the West Ham game was when he took over his first game (Huddersfield) so going into the Huddersfield game we were 5 points ahead of the drop, not 8. After beating West Ham 4-0, they had conceded 30 goals, and Stoke 29, ourselves 28 (3rd most)

Trying to make out like things weren't going that badly for us is just not true. We were terrible defensively and were getting beaten comfortably by average to poor sides. The confidence was at rock bottom and Moshiri knew he had to act which is why he brought in Allardyce as a short term measure (until the Summer or next).

We were 9 points off 7th after the West Ham game, and are now only 2 points off it. People can say if this, if that, but none of us know what would have happened so we can only deal with the facts available.

 

[blueblue]

more importantly, not only do the fans not want him

what about the players? we've got players here who are the future who would love to see the back of him

Lookman & vlasic both very talented I reckon would benefit another manager

Holgate has been our best CB and yet the first opportunity to drop him he has so he can put the hoof merchants back at CB

cenk has just come in from a champions league team and were being told he cant settle in the league based on 1 and a half games,

he's not only damaging the fans relationship with the club he's damaging some of the players too

I have seen so much talk about Lookman and Vlasic . Anytime I have seen them they have been good and awful in equal measures.
I don't expect them to be as good as Walcott but he is currently in the team and sets the barometer and they are nowhere even remotely close to him.

 

[Lanolin]

Ok my point is this. prior to allardyces appointment it is my opinion that we were in trouble. I did not see were the next win was coming from and we were 4th from bottom. since allardyces appointment we are going to be in the premier league next season.

Tuchal et al all sounds good makes us sound as if we are going places romantic European sounding names and all that, load of sh-'te. On appointing one of these phoneys and realising just about now that we are going down we would have had allardyce in another corner battling against us.

Koeman bought a load of rubbish, wasted millions and left us in the s'-t.

I am not an allardyce fan but given the hand he was dealt, i.e. the players at his disposal I reckon that staying up this season is job done, not a
great achievement but job done after the mess that koeman left.

And we agree on a lot of that, I've said before that he's done OK not terribly. I just struggle to see how anyone can see they didn't know where the next win was coming from when we'd won our last 2 home games and our next game was at home to a team who hadn't scored in 7 away games. That's the only point I've been making here, that if you look at things objectively rather than through panic stricken eyes we weren't on the verge of relegation. It was always likely that we would beat Swansea and Huddersfield, and Newcastle was a nice bonus because I'd forgotten what winning away games was like. I just don't like the idea of praising Allardyce and saying we should be thankful that he's kept us up when I just don't see why people were panicking in the first place.

You've embarrassed yourself with a bit of a xenophobic rant there though haven't you? No way them foreigners can come over and win games is there? Need a big fat brummy in your corner who can win you some games when the going gets tough. INGERLUND!

 

[evertonarntwe]

I have seen so much talk about Lookman and Vlasic . Anytime I have seen them they have been good and awful in equal measures.
I don't expect them to be as good as Walcott but he is currently in the team and sets the barometer and they are nowhere even remotely close to him.

mate walcotts been here 5 minutes, what about bolasie before that getting played even though he wasn't fit? schniederlin all season when he's been terrible?

my point is the younger players who HAVENT been given a fair crack won't want to stay with him and charge and I don't blame them

 

[truebluejersey]

And we agree on a lot of that, I've said before that he's done OK not terribly. I just struggle to see how anyone can see they didn't know where the next win was coming from when we'd won our last 2 home games and our next game was at home to a team who hadn't scored in 7 away games. That's the only point I've been making here, that if you look at things objectively rather than through panic stricken eyes we weren't on the verge of relegation. It was always likely that we would beat Swansea and Huddersfield, and Newcastle was a nice bonus because I'd forgotten what winning away games was like. I just don't like the idea of praising Allardyce and saying we should be thankful that he's kept us up when I just don't see why people were panicking in the first place.

You've embarrassed yourself with a bit of a xenophobic rant there though haven't you? No way them foreigners can come over and win games is there? Need a big fat brummy in your corner who can win you some games when the going gets tough. INGERLUND!

So playing the racist card now, not exactly right that though is it just pointing out that 2 of them were untried in the premier league and 1 of them has just been sacked

 

[Lanolin]

So playing the racist card now, not exactly right that though is it just pointing out that 2 of them were untried in the premier league and 1 of them has just been sacked

Saying one of these 'phoneys' with a fancy European sounding name couldn't have kept up a team which wasn't even in the relegation zone is quite xenophobic mate yeah, I won't be withdrawing that.