Is Sam that bad?

[blueblue]

In the last 3 seasons 38/35/36 points was enough to stay up
In the last 21 years 37 points on average has been enough to stay up.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sk...ation-battle-do-you-need-40-points-to-stay-up
There was no way we were ever in a relegation fight
That was just the justification for getting the Gravy and urine drinkers in so the could say we got Everton out of the shoight.
FSA plays dreadful football , is petrified of the top six and deserves to go

If we were never ever in a relegation fight Sam Allyrdyce would not be our manager today. He was brought in to make sure we stayed in the premiership and when you think back to the games we played earlier in the season relegation certainly could happen.
I remember the game away to Southampton just to name one where we made a team that were struggling just like ourselves look like worldbeaters.
If we had not beaten Palace on Saturday the talk would all have been about us being dragged back into the relegation fight and looking at some of our players I am not sure they would all have the stomach for that.

If Sam goes then fine , but who replaces him ? If it is an established manager in a major league like Tuchel, that is fine but don't say Fonseca or Silva ?

 

[Lanolin]

Sam was appointed to keep us clear of relegation and if possible to move us up the table.
Barring a complete meltdown we should be able to stay up and we are in a three way fight for seventh. That is the highest we can finish, but we can finish a lot lower. People have short memories, when he was appointed relegation was a very real threat which was partially allayed by the result at home to West Ham. But, we were awful and it was difficult to see where points were going to come from.

I read the criticism of Sam on here and frankly most of it is just stupid and in my opinion lacking in reality.
Sam is not a long term solution at Everton , his age alone will prevent that. I am not even convinced absolutely that when the season is over that he will have the enthusiasm to keep going. I think that if he wants to stay at Everton then it will be facilitated either as manager or in some more senior capacity for next season but probably not beyond. We have gone from being relegation contenders to not only wanting to win.. but win playing well in about eight weeks... with the same players which most people on here have relatively little confidence in.

We have wasted a lot of money on both managers and players and now I see repeated calls for Fonseca or Silva... even bigger risks. Are we going to give them another 100m to spend as well ?

The money being made available for transfers and the money being paid to our managers means that we must be interesting some quality managers. I want the next manager to be the right one... I think the club needs the next manager to be the right one to prevent us falling away completely as a club. I am prepared to wait until such a manager can be found.
Getting rid of Sam Allyrdyce to replace him with greater uncertainty makes no sense to me.

If we were never ever in a relegation fight Sam Allyrdyce would not be our manager today. He was brought in to make sure we stayed in the premiership and when you think back to the games we played earlier in the season relegation certainly could happen.
I remember the game away to Southampton just to name one where we made a team that were struggling just like ourselves look like worldbeaters.
If we had not beaten Palace on Saturday the talk would all have been about us being dragged back into the relegation fight and looking at some of our players I am not sure they would all have the stomach for that.

If Sam goes then fine , but who replaces him ? If it is an established manager in a major league like Tuchel, that is fine but don't say Fonseca or Silva ?

Two days after Allardyce was appointed we were 8 points clear of the relegation zone. We're still 8 points clear of the relegation zone. If relegation was a 'very real threat' then, it still is now. It wasn't, and it isn't.

You say it was difficult to see where points would come from, but it wasn't. We'd beaten 4 teams at home when he took over, and we've beaten another 4 since - that was always where our points would come from. I wouldn't be surprised if just our home form got us enough points to keep us up this season, and that doesn't surprise me.

Allardyce hasn't done a terrible job at all, but nor has he done a particularly good one. He's come in and carried on picking up points at home, and managed to win one away game which puts him above his predecessors this season. I can't be grateful to him for doing a job on a par with Puel at Leicester, Moyes at West Ham, Carvahal at Swansea or Hodgson at Palace, it's the absolute least I expect, particularly when he's been handed £50m to help him along.

Keeping Allardyce in place means - at best - a season of 'stability'. We've had about 15 years of stability though, we need to start looking forward. A new manager with ideas of how to make the players at his disposal better, and compete in every game, and a new DoF who's capable of identifying the right players and concluding the deals to get them here are absolutely vital if we don't want to forever be a team who finishes 7th-11th. There is nothing -NOTHING - in Allardyce's managerial history which suggests he's capable of taking Everton where we want to go, so why on earth do we want to waste time employing him for another year?

 

[davids]

If we were never ever in a relegation fight Sam Allyrdyce would not be our manager today. He was brought in to make sure we stayed in the premiership and when you think back to the games we played earlier in the season relegation certainly could happen.
I remember the game away to Southampton just to name one where we made a team that were struggling just like ourselves look like worldbeaters.
If we had not beaten Palace on Saturday the talk would all have been about us being dragged back into the relegation fight and looking at some of our players I am not sure they would all have the stomach for that.

If Sam goes then fine , but who replaces him ? If it is an established manager in a major league like Tuchel, that is fine but don't say Fonseca or Silva ?

Tuchel was available when we signed Allardyce...and had zero interest in joining us.

 

[4737carlin]

If we were never ever in a relegation fight Sam Allyrdyce would not be our manager today. He was brought in to make sure we stayed in the premiership and when you think back to the games we played earlier in the season relegation certainly could happen.
I remember the game away to Southampton just to name one where we made a team that were struggling just like ourselves look like worldbeaters.
If we had not beaten Palace on Saturday the talk would all have been about us being dragged back into the relegation fight and looking at some of our players I am not sure they would all have the stomach for that.

If Sam goes then fine , but who replaces him ? If it is an established manager in a major league like Tuchel, that is fine but don't say Fonseca or Silva ?

Good post that mate, people are soon forgetting how much of a mess we found ourselves in, get rid of Sam and bring in the wrong man and we could be back there, the 4th manager since Moyes has to be the right now, not some panic rubbish like Silva

Tuchel was available when we signed Allardyce...and had zero interest in joining us.

Which is why we have Sam and will more then likely have him next season

Two days after Allardyce was appointed we were 8 points clear of the relegation zone. We're still 8 points clear of the relegation zone. If relegation was a 'very real threat' then, it still is now. It wasn't, and it isn't.

Yeah but we are higher up the table and there are less games/points to play for, we also have Walcott now

 

[davids]

A new manager with ideas of how to make the players at his disposal better, and compete in every game

Who did you have in mind Tuchel or Blanc,(both of them were out of work when we approached Allardyce) AVB who preferred trying to break his neck rallying rather than manage us.Or that great success story Silva?

 

[Lanolin]

Good post that mate, people are soon forgetting how much of a mess we found ourselves in, get rid of Sam and bring in the wrong man and we could be back there, the 4th manager since Moyes has to be the right now, not some panic rubbish like Silva

Which is why we have Sam and will more then likely have him next season


Yeah but we are higher up the table and there are less games/points to play for, we also have Walcott now

One place higher yes. And the point about Walcott just backs up what i'm saying. Theo Walcott would be a club record signing for virtually every side below us, and yet he's not even the most expensive signing we made this window! He's spent £50m and people are telling me I should be grateful that he's taken us from 5 points clear of relegation to 8 points. Forgive me if I don't see what's so remarkable about that 'achievement'.

 

[truebluejersey]

One place higher yes. And the point about Walcott just backs up what i'm saying. Theo Walcott would be a club record signing for virtually every side below us, and yet he's not even the most expensive signing we made this window! He's spent £50m and people are telling me I should be grateful that he's taken us from 5 points clear of relegation to 8 points. Forgive me if I don't see what's so remarkable about that 'achievement'.

I think the point being made is before he came we were in danger of going down. We are not getting relegated now, that is the achievement. I've said before, its easy this management malarkey, anyone can do it, until they have to actually do it and find out differently.

I understand the frustration of the bad results, but we will be in the premier league next season due to his management.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Let's get Wenger in for 2 years after he leaves Arsenal. Teach our players the art of sexy football, before handing the reigns over to a younger manager.

 

[Simon Buttle]

I think the point being made is before he came we were in danger of going down. We are not getting relegated now, that is the achievement. I've said before, its easy this management malarkey, anyone can do it, until they have to actually do it and find out differently.

I understand the frustration of the bad results, but we will be in the premier league next season due to his management.

I honestly don't think we were, yes we looked garbage at the time but look at whats going on in the rest of the league. There are some real ordinary football teams in this league, i think there are 4/5 that are far worse than we are, yes we are probably the worst to watch, but i think we were never relegation material, it was far too early to decide that imo.

 

[blueblue]

Two days after Allardyce was appointed we were 8 points clear of the relegation zone. We're still 8 points clear of the relegation zone. If relegation was a 'very real threat' then, it still is now. It wasn't, and it isn't.

You say it was difficult to see where points would come from, but it wasn't. We'd beaten 4 teams at home when he took over, and we've beaten another 4 since - that was always where our points would come from. I wouldn't be surprised if just our home form got us enough points to keep us up this season, and that doesn't surprise me.

Allardyce hasn't done a terrible job at all, but nor has he done a particularly good one. He's come in and carried on picking up points at home, and managed to win one away game which puts him above his predecessors this season. I can't be grateful to him for doing a job on a par with Puel at Leicester, Moyes at West Ham, Carvahal at Swansea or Hodgson at Palace, it's the absolute least I expect, particularly when he's been handed £50m to help him along.

Keeping Allardyce in place means - at best - a season of 'stability'. We've had about 15 years of stability though, we need to start looking forward. A new manager with ideas of how to make the players at his disposal better, and compete in every game, and a new DoF who's capable of identifying the right players and concluding the deals to get them here are absolutely vital if we don't want to forever be a team who finishes 7th-11th. There is nothing -NOTHING - in Allardyce's managerial history which suggests he's capable of taking Everton where we want to go, so why on earth do we want to waste time employing him for another year?

Since Sam took over I think we have played thirteen games, as you say we were eight points clear then , we are the same today after playing Liverpool, Chelsea,Man Utd, Spurs and Arsenal in that time. The only team from the top six we didn't play was City.

I think your summary is correct, not terrible, not particularly good... best described as "safe" which is why I think he got the job.

 

[brieverton]

We just need to get to the end of the season now.

I was in the minority for wanting him in, both because we needed an appointment to be made without further delay, and I was genuinely concerned at the prospect of relegation due to my absolute mistrust in the backbone of this squad in adversity.

He has done fine I think, but I thought he would be savvy enough to try and raise expectations slowly rather than buying into the “but we’re crap, didn’t you realise?” excuse.

I also expected at least a coherent attempt at stubborn and organised resistance in the two North London games. To have both opposition managers moaning at our tactics and refusal to play would have been fine by me. The manner of both defeats was humiliating and damaging, and I don’t think he appreciates that at all bar the regular cliches.

One thing I’ll readily admit I underestimated is the degree of negative association he has brought to the club. It has portrayed us as desperate and out of step, which does damage our image and reputation if we want to be seen as progressive and news worthy. But none of that is his fault, the board knew exactly what they were getting and made a monumental cock-up of the whole process.

To take the Fireman Sam analogy further he has quenched a raging blaze to a large degree but with collateral damage and smouldering embers remain. The fire is largely out, but there is no need to pour water on undamaged parts of the house and ruin their look. Time for a renovation specialist now.

 

[truebluejersey]

I honestly don't think we were, yes we looked garbage at the time but look at whats going on in the rest of the league. There are some real ordinary football teams in this league, i think there are 4/5 that are far worse than we are, yes we are probably the worst to watch, but i think we were never relegation material, it was far too early to decide that imo.

I thought we were a complete shambles. I went the Southampton away game, dear God, you do not mess with relegation, the consequences are catastrophic. That in my opinion is why they brought him in.

 

[Lanolin]

I think the point being made is before he came we were in danger of going down. We are not getting relegated now, that is the achievement. I've said before, its easy this management malarkey, anyone can do it, until they have to actually do it and find out differently.

I understand the frustration of the bad results, but we will be in the premier league next season due to his management.

But i'm saying we were in no more danger than we are now. We were beating the sides below us at home, just as we are now. He's simply carried on doing what we were doing all along.

We won't be in the PL because of his management at all. We weren't in the relegation zone when he took over, and our form at that time wasn't in the bottom 3 either. There was, in other words, no reason to believe that we were in danger of being relegated, other than a gut feeling.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

The funny thing is, we spoke to Allardyce quite early in the search for a new manager, and binned him off. Then went after Silva, even willing to cough up £10m in compensation to Watford (that's how much we wanted Allardyce) before going back to Allardyce cap in hand after he was the only option left. He must have thought all his birthdays had come at once, £6m a year, and probably a bonus for 'keeping us up.'

 

[truebluejersey]

But i'm saying we were in no more danger than we are now. We were beating the sides below us at home, just as we are now. He's simply carried on doing what we were doing all along.

We won't be in the PL because of his management at all. We weren't in the relegation zone when he took over, and our form at that time wasn't in the bottom 3 either. There was, in other words, no reason to believe that we were in danger of being relegated, other than a gut feeling.

As somebody previously posted we made Southampton who are dire look like Barcelona, that coupled with the previous results home and away
resulted in the panic button being pressed