Is Sam that bad?

[SantaClausisanEvertonian]

Is Allardyce that bad?
Such a simple question and so easy to answer....YES!

 

[Lowste]

I don`t agree. Their is a middle ground you know and it is not all about tactics - attitude is massively important

Apologies you replying to the Martinez bit

 

[AlexEFC92]

It’s a no from me, 100% a better manager than Koeman, Martinez and Unsworth. Still not what we want to move to the next level but I think the hate he gets is unjustified.

 

[ExpatinBangkok]

If you want your team to stay in bottom 4-5 spots in the Prem pretty much permanently, then yes, Sam is your man. That's where his ultra '9 at the back' will keep you.

 

[fandjango]

Ohhh No he isn’t

Oh yes he is!

 

[EFC78]

If you want your team to stay in bottom 4-5 spots in the Prem pretty much permanently, then yes, Sam is your man. That's where his ultra '9 at the back' will keep you.

Well thought out and reasonable post this.

He came in with us in 13th and we're now 9th. He's also never been relegated from the Premier League and had a club like Bolton finish 6th in the PL drawing away at Bayern Munich in Europe, with them now in danger of falling back in to League 1.

Amazes me how his time at Bolton gets overlooked here too. He took over at Bolton with them in the 2nd tier, and within 3 seasons of coming up then got them 8th, 6th, 8th and 7th. If that was a foreign manager in Germany who did that with a club similar in stature to Bolton, loads would be using it as justification for bringing them in here. Tuchel for example got Mainz 9th, 5th, 13th, 13th, 7th, but the Bundesliga only has 18 teams so those 13th placed finishes are worse than 13th in the PL.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Well thought out and reasonable post this.

He came in with us in 13th and we're now 9th. He's also never been relegated from the Premier League and had a club like Bolton finish 6th in the PL drawing away at Bayern Munich in Europe, with them now in danger of falling back in to League 1.

Amazes me how his time at Bolton gets overlooked here too. He took over at Bolton with them in the 2nd tier, and within 3 seasons of coming up then got them 8th, 6th, 8th and 7th. If that was a foreign manager in Germany who did that with a club similar in stature to Bolton, loads would be using it as justification for bringing them in here. Tuchel for example got Mainz 9th, 5th, 13th, 13th, 7th, but the Bundesliga only has 18 teams so those 13th placed finishes are worse than 13th in the PL.

No-one over looks it at that time it was a brilliant achievement.... however, it was 11 years ago he left Bolton, 2005/2006 he got them into the Uefa Cup. So thats 12 years ago he had a "good" season.

If he done it two seasons ago, then you hold your hands up and say maybe he has something... 13 years between a "good" season and now is a lifetime in football, football now is a different beast and Sam has been left with them days.

If he had anything left, the clubs who he "survived" with would have had him for longer. Since he left Bolton the most sustained period of time was at West Ham for 3 years... hmmm, I wonder how that ended.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Ohhh No he isn’t

All jokes aside, if he keeps changing a winning team then he is not the manager I thought he would be. We had a settled defence and he changed it and we have been leaking goals since. Almost all our wins come from when Sigurdsson and Rooney play together and he has dropped one or other or both. Madness.

 

[evertonarntwe]

donkey of a manager

so he should be beating teams like palace ( without several of there best players ) at home

not arsed what people think but our team is a lot better than what people make out, even with martina and niasse init

unsworth got a couple of home wins and away point against teams around us at the time and he was deemed not ready by people

 

[EFC78]

donkey of a manager

so he should be beating teams like palace ( without several of there best players ) at home

not arsed what people think but our team is a lot better than what people make out, even with martina and niasse init

unsworth got a couple of home wins and away point against teams around us at the time and he was deemed not ready by people

Something Martinez and Koeman both failed to do. Since Palace came back up we hadn't beaten them at Goodison until Saturday, so it's clearly not been an easy fixture for us.

April 2014: Lost 3-2 (Martinez)
September 2014: Lost 3-2 (Martinez)
December 2015: Drew 1-1 (Martinez)
September 2016: Drew 1-1 (Koeman)

 

[evertonarntwe]

Something Martinez and Koeman both failed to do. Since Palace came back up we hadn't beaten them at Goodison until Saturday, so it's clearly not been an easy fixture for us.

April 2014: Lost 3-2 (Martinez)
September 2014: Lost 3-2 (Martinez)
December 2015: Drew 1-1 (Martinez)
September 2016: Drew 1-1 (Koeman)

either way, teams around that position in the league we should be beating at home

 

[EFC78]

No-one over looks it at that time it was a brilliant achievement.... however, it was 11 years ago he left Bolton, 2005/2006 he got them into the Uefa Cup. So thats 12 years ago he had a "good" season.

If he done it two seasons ago, then you hold your hands up and say maybe he has something... 13 years between a "good" season and now is a lifetime in football, football now is a different beast and Sam has been left with them days.

If he had anything left, the clubs who he "survived" with would have had him for longer. Since he left Bolton the most sustained period of time was at West Ham for 3 years... hmmm, I wonder how that ended.

I'd say that getting a club like Bolton promoted and within 3 seasons achieving 4 consecutive top 8 finishes is better than 'a good season'. The last time Bolton had achieved a top 6 finish in the top flight before that was in 1960. Just have a look how big an achievement those 4 consecutive seasons were by looking at the context of Bolton's league finishes here:

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/england.htm

Between 1960 and 2004 when he got them 8th, Bolton had been regulars in the 3rd tier, and even dropped as low as the 4th tier in 1988.

You're right in that it was a while ago, and I accept that. I personally don't think he has more than a season left in him but some people never even gave him a chance and loads are pretty much twisting the reality to make out like he's doing a poor job when he blatantly isn't.

 

[Raino85]

We are were we are (in an ok league position despite being dreadful most of the season and not even trying against the better teams) because we have 3 or 4 game changers in the team.
Rooney, Walcott, Sigurdsson, Pickford all making a contribution here and there gets us out of the mire so many times

 

[matty1878]

I would not be so sure of that.
I think Sam was probably first choice even before Silva... but only until the summer. He has delivered what has been asked of him...nearly which was safety.
Getting the right manager for the long term is a precarious thing unless you get an elite manager like Simon.
I think Sam may be held in higher regard within football than by fans. People like Sir Alex hold him in high regard...Wrong or right.
I really do see him staying at the club in some capacity bar a late season meltdown.

Not by our fans. For that and his ugly hoofball is a good enough reason to bin him

 

[Brisan123]

Hear me out

8 games played against sides outside the top 6, Won 5, 2 draws and 1 loss

So basically we have picked up 17 points out of 24 out of games we would expect to win, whichever way you spin that it's a very good return

Now obviously we've been shocking against the top 6 sides but this is nothing new and goes back years

Does he deserve a second season?

His style of football is pure muck
His selections for certain games defy all known logic
His refusal to play young players except where he has no option is ludricous
He spent 27 m on a badly needed striker and won’t play him
He continues to pick Martina at LB
He’s an obnoxious individual
I could go on but I won’t