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Jags!

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Neiler said:
His distribution is very good, but that isnt any use if your conceading two goals a game - his defending needs alot of work. Simple fact our best seasons defensively have come with Yobo and Jags in the team. They have actually been our main central defensive partnership for the last three years, a very very successfull one i might add. Lescott and Jags very rarely played together in central defence to be honest, it was mostly Yobo and Jags. The one thing that always amazed me about Lescott, Yobo and Jags - was despite Lescott and Yobo both being seasoned internationals - Jags was the one who organised the defence verbally, additionaly he is our most versatile central defender he can play both right and left side successfully in defensive partnerships - a rare gift - another variable why he is so valuable to us and to others.

As for Jonny, i take your point about injuries, settleing in etc - but hes overatted by our fans at CD for me and its masked by his excellent distribution, he can certainly improve defenively and lets hope he does - i dont think Moyes will start him at centre half either to be honest all fit when Prem starts like most expect.
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You raise some interesting points, mate. Still got to disagree though. Heitinga makes more mistakes than Jags for sure, but this is why we love Jags so much. Before the injury he made what? 1 mistake a year? Heitinga is an adept defender, an organiser and he doesn't switch off. For us last season, once he'd settled in, I don't remember any real mistakes. Distin made a lot more, but I still maintain Distin is a good defender too.

And our defensive improved a lot when Heitinga had settled in. Not to mention that at the start it was not his fault. It was just one of those things -- new defenders with new partners, at a new team, and sometimes in new positions. Bound to be confusion. And remember, he wasn't in the team for our two biggest defeats last season.
 
Views will always be divided on these issues.

Thousands think he was our best defender and thousands think Lescott was. I'm in the Lescott camp, as Lescott was also a prolific goal scorer and a fabulous left back. Jags will never play in goal for a Premiership side with a fit keeper so don't even go there.

Jags had a great season alongside Lescott, and decent with Yobo, but last season he was poor by his own standards. He was actually poor by any standards. Yes, he had returned from injury, but you don't get near that pitch unless you're ready to, so that only carries so much weight.

We received a huge payment for Lescott because it was City flashing the cash, and Moyes dragged it out as much as possible. No way will you get £25m from Arsenal. Had he been a regular International, then it's possible, but he isn't, and before folks talk about him being injured as a reason for that, it is the same for every footballer. He was dreadful when he played for England last, like it or not.

For Jags to command that price, he will have to find form once again, and reclaim his England place. I think he and Lescott bounced off each other, and I don't know if he will hit those heights again, unless City buy him and the partnership is reunited, or perhaps both play together for England.

Those calling him the best center back in the Premiership have blue tinted spectacles on. He's a good player, and on form he's great, but he is not the best in the Prem. He's not even the best at Everton on current form for crying out loud.

Moyes could make the team better as a whole with a little spending money, and hopefully that money will come from the board and we sell noone, but Arsenal are a huge step up from us regarding recent success, and Jags might want to play for them. We have no guarantee of reaching Europa again. There is a strong chance that Arsenal will remain in Europe. If we want to reach Europe again, we have to look at every option, even if we don't like those options. We all love Jags, but we love Everton more, and what's best for Everton is the most important.
 
bluebastardo said:
Views will always be divided on these issues.

Thousands think he was our best defender and thousands think Lescott was. I'm in the Lescott camp, as Lescott was also a prolific goal scorer and a fabulous left back. Jags will never play in goal for a Premiership side with a fit keeper so don't even go there.

Jags had a great season alongside Lescott, and decent with Yobo, but last season he was poor by his own standards. He was actually poor by any standards. Yes, he had returned from injury, but you don't get near that pitch unless you're ready to, so that only carries so much weight.

We received a huge payment for Lescott because it was City flashing the cash, and Moyes dragged it out as much as possible. No way will you get £25m from Arsenal. Had he been a regular International, then it's possible, but he isn't, and before folks talk about him being injured as a reason for that, it is the same for every footballer. He was dreadful when he played for England last, like it or not.

For Jags to command that price, he will have to find form once again, and reclaim his England place. I think he and Lescott bounced off each other, and I don't know if he will hit those heights again, unless City buy him and the partnership is reunited, or perhaps both play together for England.

Those calling him the best center back in the Premiership have blue tinted spectacles on. He's a good player, and on form he's great, but he is not the best in the Prem. He's not even the best at Everton on current form for crying out loud.

Moyes could make the team better as a whole with a little spending money, and hopefully that money will come from the board and we sell noone, but Arsenal are a huge step up from us regarding recent success, and Jags might want to play for them. We have no guarantee of reaching Europa again. There is a strong chance that Arsenal will remain in Europe. If we want to reach Europe again, we have to look at every option, even if we don't like those options. We all love Jags, but we love Everton more, and what's best for Everton is the most important.
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I agree with that for the most part.

A few issues though:

1.) Lescott was not prolific. He had one season where he scored 10. He has not got close to matching that before or since. It's a bit of a misnomer.
2.) I personally think that Jags is the better defender.

However I do agree that Lescott is more versatile -- at a higher level -- though. Jags in midfield, at RB or in goal may be enough for Sheff united, but not for us in the PL. You also raise a fantastic point about some Evertonians thinking that we got £24 mil for Lescott, so Jags is worth as much or more. That's stupid. Lescott wasn't worth that much -- city were just flashing the cash as you said. Back to my original point, I think £16mil for Jags is a really good price. That Jan Vertongen would cost what? £10mil? He's meant to be ace, and he's young too.
 
Players should be judged on individual performances, Heitinga's performances at centre back where fine, you'll struggle to pick out many individual errors he made. We didn't keep clean sheets regularly all season and that included the games the likes of Yobo and Jagielka started. Given the injury situation, it was no surprise. Maybe Fellaini wasn't a good defensive midfielder because we where conceding goals aswell? Somehow I don't think people would agree with that.

He was also part of the Dutch defence with the best defensive record in the qualifiers, aswell as being part of the team that got to the final. It doesn't add up really, Johnny Heitinga is a perfectly capable centre back. He was for Ajax aswell.

If he doesn't play centre back then either him of Fellaini (when he's fit) will drop out the team. They won't play together, I'd put money on it. Arteta, if he's still with us, will be our first choice midfielder.
 

I'm just laughing at all these clubs like Arsenal.

They're just jealous because they're [Poor language removed] and they want our players.

But they can't have them.

Simple as that.
 
Matt Damon said:
I'm just laughing at all these clubs like Arsenal.

They're just jealous because they're [Poor language removed] and they want our players.

But they can't have them.

Simple as that.
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They're [Poor language removed]? When was the last time we finished above Arsenal, mate?
 
Matt Damon said:
If they were that good - why are they being linked with our players?

Rodwell, Pienaar and Jagielka in that order.....
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That's a ridiculous thing to say. Where did we get a lot of those players from? We got Jags from Sheff Utd. Does that mean they're better than us?

Crazy way of thinking.
 

RadioFriendlyUnitShifter said:
That's a ridiculous thing to say. Where did we get a lot of those players from? We got Jags from Sheff Utd. Does that mean they're better than us?

Crazy way of thinking.
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No its not.

It suggests there are serious weaknesses in the Arsenal team.

Thats the point.

Ridiculous? Do I have to draw the dots for you?
 
Matt Damon said:
No its not.

It suggests there are serious weaknesses in the Arsenal team.

Thats the point.

Ridiculous? Do I have to draw the dots for you?
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There are weaknesses in their team, yes. They need a new CB quite urgently, because they've lost one or two. That doesn't mean our team is as good as theirs, it just means that we have some players that they think are good enough for them.
 
RadioFriendlyUnitShifter said:
There are weaknesses in their team, yes. They need a new CB quite urgently, because they've lost one or two. That doesn't mean our team is as good as theirs, it just means that we have some players that they think are good enough for them.
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Thats conjecture.

They're still [Poor language removed] at that back and they won't be getting Jagielka.
 
Matt Damon said:
If they were that good - why are they being linked with our players?

Rodwell, Pienaar and Jagielka in that order.....
Click to expand...

they get linked to our players because journalists make stories up and you believe them and get angry about it. Stop reading the papers and you will find yourself feeling happier about life in general. Well i do anyway!
 

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