McCarthy can as well when he's given licence to do so.
This idea that he's poor on the ball needs to stop. He really isn't.
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McCarthy can as well when he's given licence to do so.
This idea that he's poor on the ball needs to stop. He really isn't.
He isn't great with the ball, that is a fact to be honest. His passing range is adequate and that's it.
he's not in the team to be a playmaker though. For the job he does his passing is absolutely fine. For me he's played one of the passes of our season with that assist to Lukaku vs Stoke as well.
The Equaliser
Player Valuation: £50m
I agree it's not his role as such but he is one of the weaker players under pressure at finding a team mate or passing forward. Besic is superior at that part of the game and plays a similar role/position.
I'd very much like to see a McCarthy and Besic partnership though. With Barry getting rested a little more and playing less games.
Stephenlloyd
Player Valuation: £40m
Well his assists and goals tell us otherwise. But I'm sure you will have an answer for this.
Like you keep trying to tell us that your favourite son had nothing to do with our poor form of last season, as he's more injury prone than Gibson & Oviedo. Even though he's played 75% of our league games in the last 2yrs.
He's a very good hardworking working defensive midfielder. For me he sits infront of the back 4 or shouldn't play
Yes mate I do as the simple answer is he's not in the team to provide goals or assists. And since when does providing goals and assists mean you're 'great on the ball', or vice versa. What a nothing point that was.
Yes, McCarthy was poor for a time last year and was in and out of the team with injuries. He came back (as I checked this the other night after a discussion with another member on here) in that defeat to Newcastle around Christmas and then again didn't play for another five weeks. He came back into the side in February and we struggled for about four weeks up until mid March, where we beat Newcastle with McCarthy being the main player in the team that day.
We then went on to win 6 of the next 7 league games and lift ourselves clear of any danger - and McCarthy was key in doing that - as he'd finally got over his injury troubles and found some form.
Early part of this season he was poor by his standards but for me the turning point (and I said this at the time) was the second half of the league cup game vs Norwich.
First half he'd been partnered with Gibbo in centre mid and he had been poor - and partly that reason was down to having to be our main attacking midfielder with Gibson sitting so deep behind him.
Second half RM brought on Barkley and moved Gibson back to centre back. Suddenly, he (McCarthy) clicked back into gear with a genuine attacking threat alongside him and looked back to his best - e.g. making those last ditch covering tackles etc etc.
Next few games we picked up 7 from 9 vs Sunderland, W.Ham and Villa, and McCarthy looked very good in every one of them.
Surprise surprise, we're 2-0 up against Bournemouth and when he went off injured, we fell to pieces, as there was nobody in our midfield top do that defensive work (e.g. niggling little challenges, nipping in and winning free-kicks) so well.
His return to full fitness in February then coincided with our best run of form this season...
I really don't understand how you can't see McCarthy's importance to this team. When he's at his best, we're at our best, more often than not.
Even when he has an off-day, which happened vs Bournemouth and Villa, he's still integral to us.
And as for his stats, well he has two assists in the league this year. W.Ham midfield supremo Mark Noble has three (league assists but also he as 0 in either the FA Cup or Lg Cup), having played every Prem game so far.
If he's had a bad game, I'll say so. McCarthy isn't infallible. But when he's fully fit he starts as the role he plays helps us win games.
Besic coming back provides another option and serious competition, which can only be a good thing.
Stephenlloyd
Player Valuation: £40m
Comparing him to journeyman Noble pmsl.
We will never agree, but he's nowhere near good enough in the box to box role to take us forward.
Like I said play him infront if the back 4 or not at all.
I've just been on squawka.com
Checking out all the midfielders in the prem. and doesn't make great reading. I looked at a per-game average as he's only played 19 games.
Because there are attacking midfielders in the list I wouldn't have expected him to be near the top in the overall score. He was 48th not to bad
But duels won he was 80th Barry was 34th. Defensive action which I was expecting big things, as like you said he's not in the team to score goals or get assists
He was 34th Barry 8th
Pass accuracy he's was 28th Barry was 4th
Even Barkley who people seem to think he just gives the ball away was 20th. And Barkley looks to pass forward a lot more the McCarthy
So not great
But on a happier note that superstar Noble was ahead of him on all stats
That journeyman that's played at one club for his entire career and is getting roundly tipped for an England call up having captained W.Ham in their best performing season in years...
McCarthy's key to our side. He plays well we play well. When he's not in the team (or replaced by somebody who can cover for him in a way - Besic - who has been injured a lot) we miss him. Fact.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Here is where i have a few points to suggest though mate.
Does McCarthy seem vital entirely because alongside him we have Barry who has absolutely no make up pace anymore and if he gets caught goalside is screwed, also despite covering a lot of ground showing he still has stamina etc, he can't close down and has to do it all on his positioning nowadays - which leaves no room for error, McCarthy at least enables someone to press and close down a bit in the middle - Cleverley and Gibson can't do it either, meaning when Besic like this season has been injured then McCrarthy has no direct replacement to do similar.
Guess what i am saying is - deos McCarthy stand out as so important because in our team generally we are a really lazy, so as one of only a few players who actually press or harry the opposition when he is missing we look even more pedestrian, same could be said of the impact both Lennon and Besic had when they came into the team as well, higher energy players who don't let the opponents rest, and both stood out impressively.
As a team we just don't press, and give the opposition far too much time on the ball, so the small handful of players we do that actually provide some pressure - well when they are missing we miss them far more than we should do if the team as a whole actually wasn't as god damned lazy
For what it's worth i think both Barry and McCarthy are overated, and because of the type of system and style we play both look superficially better than they really are, playing both will see us not progress as a team, basically both of them are looking good because what they do well covers for what the other doesn't do well, but overall we are playing two players to do one players job, what a really top class defensive midfielder can do - which right now we just don't have
To me it is very simple , at the moment would I have McCarthy or Besic in the side playing alongside Barry and I would have McCarthy.
I think McCarthy is a footballers/managers footballer rather than a fans footballer.
Just as I love having Deulofeu in the team , but have to recognise that Lennon gives the team a lot more solidity.
I think McCarthy is a footballers/managers footballer rather than a fans footballer.
Just as I love having Deulofeu in the team , but have to recognise that Lennon gives the team a lot more solidity.
I think you have a point mate but I don't think it's just because we don't press.
I cite the Ireland game vs Germany that they won back in October (I believe). McCarthy was amazing in that game. Like genuinely one of the best performances from a midfielder this season - and it proves that he can do that defensive midfield role you point out.
Ireland aren't lazy, and they do press, so I think McCarthy is a proven good midfielder. He isn't the best passer in the world but doesn't need to be, which means that he needs a player next to him to start attacks etc. That's Barry and I think eventually it will become Besic - or that's the long-term solution anyway. However, we have a young side and Barry's experience is vital to helping those players.
This.
Don't get me wrong I love Besic, and he's definitely going to get game time when he's fully fit. Eventually (and possibly in pre-season we may start to see the signs of it, or even towards the end of this term) Besic and McCarthy will be the way to go.
LydiateLee
Player Valuation: £8m
James, if you are reading this, PLEASE snap Payet again tomorrow.
It'd be hilarious.
It'd be hilarious.
This is it in a nutshell for me. The argument that he must be great because we struggle without him misses the crucial point that it's his style of play we miss, not him as such. The system relies on having an energetic hard worker, and when there isn't one we struggle. Cleverley simply can't do what is expected of him in that role, and not can Gibson, baines etc that had a go last year. That doesn't mean there aren't countless better options out there than McCarthy.
It's a bit like if we'd dropped Howard and put hibbert in goal, and then tried to claim that howard must have been class because he was a better keeper than his replacement.
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