January 2019 Transfer Window

[Neiler]

I would say to a far greater end that ourselves and many clubs in this country. Athletico Madrid have produced a side that have won the Europa League, could have won 2 champions league and would have likely won 1 if not 3-4 PL titles in the last 7-8 years. This has been done on the back of selling players at an opportune moment.

Our key difference is I don't believe us to be top of the food tree. I think we are the next rung down.

Athletico are a good example mate, similarly they are operating in a City with a neighbor with a bigger global profile. There are subtle nuances though, i think the pathway to CL may be more straight forward then the PL, while they seem to have gone all out to Keep Griezman recently. But i take on board what you are saying.

Its a tricky one, essentially you have to have recruitment and letting players go at the right time correctly almost all of the time. I think the PL is different again and more competitive. In a way i see Spurs and Mordor, in this decision making fork in the road at the moment as an example. Both are pretty close to title winning teams, yet arguably have hit a glass ceiling were they are struggling to improve what they have. Do they sell Kane or say Salah for huge money to reinvest to try and get to City levels or do they stick with what they have, perennially qualifying for the CL or hoping Pep runs out of road at City. The PL is a tough, tough league. I mention them really because that level of competition should be our aspiration.

Its a tricky one really, the margins between reaping and sowing are very fine.

 

[Brisan123]

Anyone copy and pasted that P Joycey article?x

I did on the Gomes thread
I assume you’re talking about the article concerning Gomes wanting to make the deal permanent
Gomes needs a song to convince him to stay lol

 

[Nymzee]

Hunter name dropped Origi as a possible January target. Hope he’s no longer remotely ITK.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Hunter name dropped Origi as a possible January target. Hope he’s no longer remotely ITK.

That’s been doing the rounds for a while. I will be amazed personally. They would want 20mil. And he’s not good enough.

The next striker we sign has to be quality, not another gamble.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree
Barca, Real, PSG, Bayern , Juventus , City and still Manure to an extent are the top rung
We along with others are at the bottom of the second tier but making strides to get to the top of that tier

And I think whats important to note is that you can still be very successful in that rung. Howard Kendall's Everton were very much a great tier 2 side. Other than Southall (and Lineker who he sold) no star players. They won 2 leagues, Fa Cup, European Trophy and would have won more had they been kept together.

 

[Brisan123]

And I think whats important to note is that you can still be very successful in that rung. Howard Kendall's Everton were very much a great tier 2 side. Other than Southall (and Lineker who he sold) no star players. They won 2 leagues, Fa Cup, European Trophy and would have won more had they been kept together.

As you said it’s how you re-invest that’s the key
This is where Brands will earn his keep
Buy low , sell high , rinse and repeat

 

[catcherintherye]

Athletico are a good example mate, similarly they are operating in a City with a neighbor with a bigger global profile. There are subtle nuances though, i think the pathway to CL may be more straight forward then the PL, while they seem to have gone all out to Keep Griezman recently. But i take on board what you are saying.

Its a tricky one, essentially you have to have recruitment and letting players go at the right time correctly almost all of the time. I think the PL is different again and more competitive. In a way i see Spurs and Mordor, in this decision making fork in the road at the moment as an example. Both are pretty close to title winning teams, yet arguably have hit a glass ceiling were they are struggling to improve what they have. Do they sell Kane or say Salah for huge money to reinvest to try and get to City levels or do they stick with what they have, perennially qualifying for the CL or hoping Pep runs out of road at City. The PL is a tough, tough league. I mention them really because that level of competition should be our aspiration.

Its a tricky one really, the margins between reaping and sowing are very fine.

I think the key is how you use the money you have. Selling Coutinho allowed Liverpool to sign Van Dijk and Allisson (to go alongside Keita and Fabinho). So far the latter 2 haven't really been a success so it's difficult to say. If either Keita or Fabinho work out it's hard not to say they haven't improved as a result, even though they haven't really replaced Coutinho like for like.

Athletic are a good example but so are Dortmund, Roma and Napoli as well. That's who I see us as similar too (or aspiring to be like if we are honest). I fear if we don't open up to selling at crucial moments we end up becoming a bit of a mixture between Moyes's Everton and Koeman's Everton where we buy the best domestic players but we do hit the ceiling.

It's tricky, but if you can recruit well it works. It does have to be firmly embedded in the plan though. There has to be some acceptance players leave so it doesn't put noses out of joint from the players or manager. Interestingly it's how Dutch clubs operate too, and certainly PSV improved greatly using that system under Brands.

 

[Pootsy]

If Marco/Marcel do buy in a Striker in January, who makes room for them? Do we go with a Back 3 and remove a DM (Gueye) or does Walcott get the shove and Gylfi and Bernard setup behind the striker?

 

[catcherintherye]

As you said it’s how you re-invest that’s the key
This is where Brands will earn his keep
Buy low , sell high , rinse and repeat

Every player has a price. I suppose my initial argument is there is little point exempting anyone from this. If you have a DOF who can clearly pull rabbits out of hats it means no player is irreplaceable and shouldn't be viewed as such.

I put Richarlinson in, partly because he would bring in the most revenue come the summer but also because I sense with his trajectory and the broader profile (a Brazilian number 9) he will have the most interest from the clubs a level above us who can utilise his appeal both on and off the field better than we can.

I absolutely agree with Zat that in the medium term we need to do that, but thats a change of upwards of 10 years and will happen well after Richarlinson has hit his peak. I am happy to work to that, but also accept if you get a suitable offer you accept and move on.

 

[bluestevon]

And I think whats important to note is that you can still be very successful in that rung. Howard Kendall's Everton were very much a great tier 2 side. Other than Southall (and Lineker who he sold) no star players. They won 2 leagues, Fa Cup, European Trophy and would have won more had they been kept together.

Steven and Ratcliffe, in the modern game, both would have been lauded mate, back then it was totally different media coverage.

Or put it another way, if either of those played for us now they'd both be constantly getting linked with big moves every other week.

 

[Neiler]

I think the key is how you use the money you have. Selling Coutinho allowed Liverpool to sign Van Dijk and Allisson (to go alongside Keita and Fabinho). So far the latter 2 haven't really been a success so it's difficult to say. If either Keita or Fabinho work out it's hard not to say they haven't improved as a result, even though they haven't really replaced Coutinho like for like.

Athletic are a good example but so are Dortmund, Roma and Napoli as well. That's who I see us as similar too (or aspiring to be like if we are honest). I fear if we don't open up to selling at crucial moments we end up becoming a bit of a mixture between Moyes's Everton and Koeman's Everton where we buy the best domestic players but we do hit the ceiling.

It's tricky, but if you can recruit well it works. It does have to be firmly embedded in the plan though. There has to be some acceptance players leave so it doesn't put noses out of joint from the players or manager. Interestingly it's how Dutch clubs operate too, and certainly PSV improved greatly using that system under Brands.

Good post mate, i'm perhaps getting ahead of myself truth be told, there is a lost of fun in the chase.

As a model i would like to see us do what Arsenal and Spurs have done in the last 20 years. Build proper football clubs, complete with strategic recruitment and background structures through all levels to support it administratively and infrastructure (stadiums) to safe guard and future proof our profile.

Good to knock the ball about though!

 

[Neiler]

Every player has a price. I suppose my initial argument is there is little point exempting anyone from this. If you have a DOF who can clearly pull rabbits out of hats it means no player is irreplaceable and shouldn't be viewed as such.

I put Richarlinson in, partly because he would bring in the most revenue come the summer but also because I sense with his trajectory and the broader profile (a Brazilian number 9) he will have the most interest from the clubs a level above us who can utilise his appeal both on and off the field better than we can.

I absolutely agree with Zat that in the medium term we need to do that, but thats a change of upwards of 10 years and will happen well after Richarlinson has hit his peak. I am happy to work to that, but also accept if you get a suitable offer you accept and move on.

Something i have noticed is that Barca in particular, seem to have a purposeful recruitment of Brazilians, i think it must be a huge market for them commercially or maybe something to do with the Nike tie in.

 

[catcherintherye]

Steven and Ratcliffe, in the modern game, both would have been lauded mate, back then it was totally different media coverage.

Or put it another way, if either of those played for us now they'd both be constantly getting linked with big moves every other week.

I don't doubt that at all. I am not sure I'd count either as marquee players though and I think Kendall said only Southall was world class. What Kendall did was build a team of excellent players who suited one another. Signing 11 galaticos shouldn't be the aim and rarely works.

We are close to this 2. We are probably a couple of players and 18 months off being a side that could feasibly challenge for the league in most seasons. The curveball is how far City are ahead, who will take some catching full stop.

 

[catcherintherye]

Something i have noticed is that Barca in particular, seem to have a purposeful recruitment of Brazilians, i think it must be a huge market for them commercially or maybe something to do with the Nike tie in.

I think both. There is also a tradition that goes back to Ronaldo/Rivaldo.

 

[catcherintherye]

Good post mate, i'm perhaps getting ahead of myself truth be told, there is a lost of fun in the chase.

As a model i would like to see us do what Arsenal and Spurs have done in the last 20 years. Build proper football clubs, complete with strategic recruitment and background structures through all levels to support it administratively and infrastructure (stadiums) to safe guard and future proof our profile.

Good to knock the ball about though!

Not at all mate, it's just different opinions and certainly no right or wrong answer.

The approach I advocate has enormous problems. If you make a mistake, or have a bad window (like we did last summer) you really can collapse. Monaco operate on this level (but on super charge really) and while the upswing was incredible (French League winners, CL finalists) the downside is now struggling with relegation.

I think emulating Spurs/Arsenal makes a lot of sense and we are increasingly resembling both teams. Arsenal in particular are well worth watching this season. They really could end up 2nd.