2019/20 Jarrad Branthwaite

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Playing regularly in

His real weak point in the games he played for us was his set play defending. He lost his man a lot for a defender at this level, but that's probably a more minor issue at his age. It can be fixed relatively quickly with a mixture of hard work, coaching and experience.

I see it that way as well, he's looked solid but goes missing when we're defending set - pieces (he's got plenty of time to eradicate that from his game though) and it's another reason why we have too be careful how much we play him.

 

[Eggs]

Playing regularly in


I see it that way as well, he's looked solid but goes missing when we're defending set - pieces (he's got plenty of time to eradicate that from his game though) and it's another reason why we have too be careful how much we play him.

...he’ll learn lots from training ground drills but perhaps even more from playering alongside seasoned professionals.

 

[catcherintherye]

...I think we do. I’d prefer to keep him here than send him on loan if I’m honest, but as long as we have other CB options I think he’s got time. The amount of playing time is largely dependent on him.

I always feel with loaning someone, you are outsourcing the responsibility.

There also appears to be a lot of conflation. It goes something like- Chelsea et al loan players out, Chelsea et al get big fees for players= Everton should loan players out to get big fees.

It's a real 2+2=35 argument. Firstly Chelsea and the like spend massive money at the front end of the youth recruitment stage, and also in fairness have regularly won or been in the final of the FA Youth Cup (which we have no for some time). We are a competitive top 10 academy, but we are not by any means an elite like Chelsea are.

Secondly, people pay big fees for their players, because they are a regular top side. You are paying because their young players have been around Lampard, Kante, Rudiger, Azpilucueta etc- people who have regularly won titles. Also they've worked under mainly top managers. It's just not the same here.

Funnily enough, we've sent lads on loan, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Robinson etc and there has been no big sales from any of them. This is always put down to a sort of a opaque "wrong sort of loan" but you then start to wonder what is the right sort of loan? There's not some magicalset of clubs out there ready to just increase your players value.

If we want to raise the profile and generate revenue the best thing we can do is to put players in the first team. We are a mid table team ahve have been for 5-6 years. If a player shows promise, he sould be given opportunities, and if he can't make it in this team, thenquestions really have to be asked whether they have a future with a club who want to improve.

Just as a final point. Look how Gordon has come on under Ancelotti. Compare it to the lack of progress under Silva. Then factor in, the level of manager you'd be sending him to in the championship (even below Silva). High qualirty coaching, playing amongst better players with match experience will always be the optimum way to do things.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

...he’ll learn lots from training ground drills but perhaps even more from playering alongside seasoned professionals.

I would have no problem with Holgate alongside him Eggs, playing alongside Keane or Mina every week would have the lad a bag of nerves by the end of the season. lol

 

[Furey1878]

I always feel with loaning someone, you are outsourcing the responsibility.

There also appears to be a lot of conflation. It goes something like- Chelsea et al loan players out, Chelsea et al get big fees for players= Everton should loan players out to get big fees.

It's a real 2+2=35 argument. Firstly Chelsea and the like spend massive money at the front end of the youth recruitment stage, and also in fairness have regularly won or been in the final of the FA Youth Cup (which we have no for some time). We are a competitive top 10 academy, but we are not by any means an elite like Chelsea are.

Secondly, people pay big fees for their players, because they are a regular top side. You are paying because their young players have been around Lampard, Kante, Rudiger, Azpilucueta etc- people who have regularly won titles. Also they've worked under mainly top managers. It's just not the same here.

Funnily enough, we've sent lads on loan, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Robinson etc and there has been no big sales from any of them. This is always put down to a sort of a opaque "wrong sort of loan" but you then start to wonder what is the right sort of loan? There's not some magicalset of clubs out there ready to just increase your players value.

If we want to raise the profile and generate revenue the best thing we can do is to put players in the first team. We are a mid table team ahve have been for 5-6 years. If a player shows promise, he sould be given opportunities, and if he can't make it in this team, thenquestions really have to be asked whether they have a future with a club who want to improve.

Just as a final point. Look how Gordon has come on under Ancelotti. Compare it to the lack of progress under Silva. Then factor in, the level of manager you'd be sending him to in the championship (even below Silva). High qualirty coaching, playing amongst better players with match experience will always be the optimum way to do things.

On the flip side though you'd expect Watford to be gunning for re-promotion right away. Have a few more finances than most Championship clubs so expect them to bring in a decent manager. Him playing a full season at a level frighteningly not too much below our own would be a good move imo.

 

[blueblue]

I think he is too young to go on loan yet.
Watford are only interested in somebody who can come in and play immediately, it is not their job to develop him as a player for us.

A couple of poor performances and he will be left out and isolated and that could set his progress back dramatically.
I think he will be kept at Everton for another season before being loaned out.

 

[catcherintherye]

On the flip side though you'd expect Watford to be gunning for re-promotion right away. Have a few more finances than most Championship clubs so expect them to bring in a decent manager. Him playing a full season at a level frighteningly not too much below our own would be a good move imo.

Are they linked?

 

[Tin-Tin]

Are they linked?

According to one Watford football writer or blogger, the hold up with the Doucoure deal is not money, its that they want Branthwaite on a loan

 

[Saint Domingo]

I always feel with loaning someone, you are outsourcing the responsibility.

There also appears to be a lot of conflation. It goes something like- Chelsea et al loan players out, Chelsea et al get big fees for players= Everton should loan players out to get big fees.

It's a real 2+2=35 argument. Firstly Chelsea and the like spend massive money at the front end of the youth recruitment stage, and also in fairness have regularly won or been in the final of the FA Youth Cup (which we have no for some time). We are a competitive top 10 academy, but we are not by any means an elite like Chelsea are.

Secondly, people pay big fees for their players, because they are a regular top side. You are paying because their young players have been around Lampard, Kante, Rudiger, Azpilucueta etc- people who have regularly won titles. Also they've worked under mainly top managers. It's just not the same here.

Funnily enough, we've sent lads on loan, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Robinson etc and there has been no big sales from any of them. This is always put down to a sort of a opaque "wrong sort of loan" but you then start to wonder what is the right sort of loan? There's not some magicalset of clubs out there ready to just increase your players value.

If we want to raise the profile and generate revenue the best thing we can do is to put players in the first team. We are a mid table team ahve have been for 5-6 years. If a player shows promise, he sould be given opportunities, and if he can't make it in this team, thenquestions really have to be asked whether they have a future with a club who want to improve.

Just as a final point. Look how Gordon has come on under Ancelotti. Compare it to the lack of progress under Silva. Then factor in, the level of manager you'd be sending him to in the championship (even below Silva). High qualirty coaching, playing amongst better players with match experience will always be the optimum way to do things.

Completely agree with this. All I would posit is that Osman Coleman Barkley Holgate all came back from loan spells as better players. So I think in the right conditions the good players will still come through from a loan and it can even be a benefit. I’ve long been of the opinion though that if a young player isn’t good enough and keeps being consistently loaned out we should look to move him on if possible and keep the pathway free for those who are good enough .

Hopefully Gibson and Branthwaite will both return from loans looking better players ready for first team football .

 

[catcherintherye]

Completely agree with this. All I would posit is that Osman Coleman Barkley Holgate all came back from loan spells as better players. So I think in the right conditions the good players will still come through from a loan and it can even be a benefit. I’ve long been of the opinion though that if a young player isn’t good enough and keeps being consistently loaned out we should look to move him on if possible and keep the pathway free for those who are good enough .

Hopefully Gibson and Branthwaite will both return from loans looking better players ready for first team football .

Interesting points. Just to counter a bit, did Barkley come back any better? He seemed to improve for me, when Martinez put him into the team, in a position that suited him and gave him a regular run. He gets a lot of stick Martinez, but his management of Barkley & Lukaku that first season was very good and very astute management. I'll be frank, I don't know what playing under Neil Warnock, while Phill Neville played in midfield for Everton really did. It was a fudge decision, from a manager who had grown conervative and short termist in his thinking.

The others, yes I would agree, I think they all benefitted. I suppose the counter might be none of them were ready to play. From the little I've seen of Brainthwaite he looks comfortable and ready to play to me.

Whats important to me, for young players is that they know if they go out there are opportunities to play. That we won't just sign more average players to block the path.

The point I didn't make above re your Chelsea's is that actually, especially they haven't actually had a good record bringing players through. Neither have City. They have great youth teams, but United bring more through. City/Liverpool/Chelsea have got away with it, to a point because hen they fail to develop them they can flog them on for decent money. At present, while finishing 12th, that option will not be available to us. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay millions of pounds for players that can't budge say Sigurdsson out of the first team.

What European teams do well (if that is who we are trying to emulate) is they take clinical, early decisions that allow them to open up space for young players. They put younger players in the team, and trust their system-also appreicating their is a long term aim as well as a short term one. Even if our goal was just to increase value, we need to expose the players to first team football before moving them on.

If Watford, or a top decent European team were going to take either on loan for a season, where you were sure they'd play a lot, it's one thing. I'm nervous of it though, and it always feels like fudging the decision to me.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Needs a spell in the championship. Ensure we can recall if no game time.

No good at all to have young players sat on our bench - get them out and playing every week.

 

[NewRadical]

I suppose if it's just a season long loan to Watford he'll gain the experience of working with 18 different managers.

 

[Tin-Tin]

Needs a spell in the championship. Ensure we can recall if no game time.

No good at all to have young players sat on our bench - get them out and playing every week.

Apparently they want a LCB, as you say if promised game time then would be the best move - better than playing U23's or sitting on the bench. Watford would have a decent chance of promotion too.

 

[kenada_blue]

I always feel with loaning someone, you are outsourcing the responsibility.

There also appears to be a lot of conflation. It goes something like- Chelsea et al loan players out, Chelsea et al get big fees for players= Everton should loan players out to get big fees.

It's a real 2+2=35 argument. Firstly Chelsea and the like spend massive money at the front end of the youth recruitment stage, and also in fairness have regularly won or been in the final of the FA Youth Cup (which we have no for some time). We are a competitive top 10 academy, but we are not by any means an elite like Chelsea are.

Secondly, people pay big fees for their players, because they are a regular top side. You are paying because their young players have been around Lampard, Kante, Rudiger, Azpilucueta etc- people who have regularly won titles. Also they've worked under mainly top managers. It's just not the same here.

Funnily enough, we've sent lads on loan, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Robinson etc and there has been no big sales from any of them. This is always put down to a sort of a opaque "wrong sort of loan" but you then start to wonder what is the right sort of loan? There's not some magicalset of clubs out there ready to just increase your players value.

If we want to raise the profile and generate revenue the best thing we can do is to put players in the first team. We are a mid table team ahve have been for 5-6 years. If a player shows promise, he sould be given opportunities, and if he can't make it in this team, thenquestions really have to be asked whether they have a future with a club who want to improve.

Just as a final point. Look how Gordon has come on under Ancelotti. Compare it to the lack of progress under Silva. Then factor in, the level of manager you'd be sending him to in the championship (even below Silva). High qualirty coaching, playing amongst better players with match experience will always be the optimum way to do things.

Personally don't believe in players at a young age being bit parts in the premiership for experience. There's a time and place for that. They needs to be a point where they get at least a full season of regular play time at a good level.

Naming Dowell is a key one as he clearly shown he wasn't going to fit in our side so was moved on. Kenny was sent out and now has enough to be judged if he can make it.

You mention Gordon (who has just made a handful of appearance) but then not mention Davies who has been pretty regularly played but yet not at a level you'd want him to be at. If he went out on loan for a full season of guaranteed game time help? I think so. Or at least it would confirm whether he'd make it or not

Nothing beats game time unless you're an exceptional talent like say Foden

 

[catcherintherye]

Personally don't believe in players at a young age being bit parts in the premiership for experience. There's a time and place for that. They needs to be a point where they get at least a full season of regular play time at a good level.

Naming Dowell is a key one as he clearly shown he wasn't going to fit in our side so was moved on. Kenny was sent out and now has enough to be judged if he can make it.

You mention Gordon (who has just made a handful of appearance) but then not mention Davies who has been pretty regularly played but yet not at a level you'd want him to be at. If he went out on loan for a full season of guaranteed game time help? I think so. Or at least it would confirm whether he'd make it or not

Nothing beats game time unless you're an exceptional talent like say Foden

I suppose my point is, loaning players out doesn't really work very often.

Davies is a good point the other way. We could have loaned him out, and moved him on for a couple of million. Because we've played him regularly we will probably get £12-£15m.