2020/21 Jean-Philippe Gbamin

[Zatara]

I think it’s only a lower risk if the player could be trusted to shore things up. Carlo’s experience should tell him that 15 mins at the end of a game where we’re likely to be under the cosh is not the time to take a punt on the lad who’s been out for 2 years coming back as prime Makelele.

In any event, it’s done now.

Tbh i actually think he did 'ok'...

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

I don’t think his substitution had much to do with the draw. Taking Coleman off had a much bigger impact.

I don’t think it did, directly, either but an alternative substitution could have had a more positive outcome. Godfrey for Seamus was a sensible sub on paper, whereas JPG coming on when we’re anything other than free and clear wasn’t; can’t blame Carlo for a great player coming on and being dump, but I will defo blame him for sending on an unfit, off the pace player who came on looking unfit and off the pace.

 

[Bluestar]

I don’t think it did, directly, either but an alternative substitution could have had a more positive outcome. Godfrey for Seamus was a sensible sub on paper, whereas JPG coming on when we’re anything other than free and clear wasn’t; can’t blame Carlo for a great player coming on and being dump, but I will defo blame him for sending on an unfit, off the pace player who came on looking unfit and off the pace.

The realistic subs he had available were Siggy, Godfrey, King and Gbamin.

If Gomes hadn’t got injured then Siggy probably would have replaced James.
He clearly doesn’t rate King at all and he needs to see what Gbamin can offer before summer.

Other than King, there was no alternative as James asked to come off apparently.

The only other choices were Nkounkou, Broadhead, Virginia, John and Tyrer.

 

[Lanolin]

The realistic subs he had available were Siggy, Godfrey, King and Gbamin.

If Gomes hadn’t got injured then Siggy probably would have replaced James.
He clearly doesn’t rate King at all and he needs to see what Gbamin can offer before summer.

Other than King, there was no alternative as James asked to come off apparently.

The only other choices were Nkounkou, Broadhead, Virginia, John and Tyrer.

But 'other than King' is meaningless isn't it? King was an option, we can't discount him just because it makes the point easier. As I said earlier, it's all hypothetical and it's entirely possible doing the things I suggested would have seen us lose the game, I'm not claiming otherwise. It's perfectly acceptable to say that Gbamin coming on wasn't a good move though, for loads of reasons.

 

[catcherintherye]

But 'other than King' is meaningless isn't it? King was an option, we can't discount him just because it makes the point easier. As I said earlier, it's all hypothetical and it's entirely possible doing the things I suggested would have seen us lose the game, I'm not claiming otherwise. It's perfectly acceptable to say that Gbamin coming on wasn't a good move though, for loads of reasons.

It's not Ancelotti's fault that Bernard, Onyango, Delph, Gomes, Allan and Doucoure were either not fit or injured in the game, but managers live and die by decisions. Had Gbamin came on and done ok, I'll always give credit to a manager and say "well done". You live and die by your decisions. And he looked a fair bit off.

I don't even have much against him bringing him on per se, but when you are a single goal ahead is an open question as to whether that was the moment.

So the logic made sense, but ultimately it's the old adage of football being played on grass not paper.

The only small positive for me, was he looked enormous, and takes the ball in nicely. So there are the makings of a decent player there, but he is going to take time.

 

[Lanolin]

It's not Ancelotti's fault that Bernard, Onyango, Delph, Gomes, Allan and Doucoure were either not fit or injured in the game, but managers live and die by decisions. Had Gbamin came on and done ok, I'll always give credit to a manager and say "well done". You live and die by your decisions. And he looked a fair bit off.

I don't even have much against him bringing him on per se, but when you are a single goal ahead is an open question as to whether that was the moment.

So the logic made sense, but ultimately it's the old adage of football being played on grass not paper.

The only small positive for me, was he looked enormous, and takes the ball in nicely. So there are the makings of a decent player there, but he is going to take time.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. I've seen managers make subs that I thought were awful but turned out to be inspired (Martinez bringing on Deulofeu for Baines in the 3-3 derby springs to mind) and vice versa. You can only judge it by the end result really. If Gbamin had come on and been neat and tidy and helped us see the game out I'd have been happy, but as he didn't you have to wonder whether it was the right approach. It's not being fickle or wise after the event, it's just how life works.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

But 'other than King' is meaningless isn't it? King was an option, we can't discount him just because it makes the point easier. As I said earlier, it's all hypothetical and it's entirely possible doing the things I suggested would have seen us lose the game, I'm not claiming otherwise. It's perfectly acceptable to say that Gbamin coming on wasn't a good move though, for loads of reasons.

Yep. Couldn’t have put it better.

It’s almost like he’s gone out of his way to show King wasn’t his choice.

 

[mahermi1]

Surely though Gbamin should have had at least a few U23 games under his belt, before being thrown into a PL game ? Not blaming him at all, but isn't that what used to happen ?

 

[blueblue]

I don’t think it did, directly, either but an alternative substitution could have had a more positive outcome. Godfrey for Seamus was a sensible sub on paper, whereas JPG coming on when we’re anything other than free and clear wasn’t; can’t blame Carlo for a great player coming on and being dump, but I will defo blame him for sending on an unfit, off the pace player who came on looking unfit and off the pace.

Carlo is Italian where defending is as highly regarded as attacking. He will never change but will work to make us more efficient.
I just don't think that expecting flowing football is realistic and I am more than happy to accept a manager that wins lots of games

JP Gbamin needs to be given time on the pitch, he needs to get back to the pace of the game and build up his match fitness and confidence in his own body .
My feeling as this season heads into the final furlongs is that the manager is planning as much for next season as anything else.
When we signed Gbamin I read an article that said he is a better centre back than a midfielder. We could give him games with the under 23s and I think we will do that also but it is games in the Premiership that will tell CA if he is a player he can count on next season
.
I think Carlo is to some degree a victim of the decent season we are having.
The expectation has reason too high, I don't think we have the team or squad to finish top four just now and even to play Europa league will require large investment to avoid what we have seen with other clubs who struggle to combine a domestic and European season

 

[Bluestar]

But 'other than King' is meaningless isn't it? King was an option, we can't discount him just because it makes the point easier. As I said earlier, it's all hypothetical and it's entirely possible doing the things I suggested would have seen us lose the game, I'm not claiming otherwise. It's perfectly acceptable to say that Gbamin coming on wasn't a good move though, for loads of reasons.

Ancelotti clearly doesn’t rate King, and he will be off at the end of the Season.
Gbamin will be here next season and wdd Ed do need to know if he is going to make it. Also, Ancelotti does not take chances with player fitness, so Gbamin is ready and needs to get up to speed.
My problem was not swapping a tiring attacking midfielder for a defensive midfielder, it was taking Coleman off when he was effective. Godfrey is a great player, but he is not a right back.

 

[Lanolin]

Ancelotti clearly doesn’t rate King, and he will be off at the end of the Season.
Gbamin will be here next season and wdd Ed do need to know if he is going to make it. Also, Ancelotti does not take chances with player fitness, so Gbamin is ready and needs to get up to speed.
My problem was not swapping a tiring attacking midfielder for a defensive midfielder, it was taking Coleman off when he was effective. Godfrey is a great player, but he is not a right back.

I agree on the last bit, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to make out that coming on for 10 minutes after 18 months out is going to help professional coaches and a hugely experienced manager decide whether they want to keep him next year. That can be assessed on his training, under 23s and run outs when he's ready to properly contribute, there's absolutely no need to be pushing him into the side just to see how good he is, it's not sunday league where a bloke's turned up claiming he used to play semi-pro and you want to see if he's having a laugh.

 

[Ste2018]

Surely though Gbamin should have had at least a few U23 games under his belt, before being thrown into a PL game ? Not blaming him at all, but isn't that what used to happen ?

Seems a sensible option to me.

 

[Papa Shango]

Surely though Gbamin should have had at least a few U23 games under his belt, before being thrown into a PL game ? Not blaming him at all, but isn't that what used to happen ?

There is a lack of games to play in and we are short of numbers in midfield so I would guess that is why he came back in.

10 minutes at the end of the game shouldn't really do him much damage.

 

[mahermi1]

There is a lack of games to play in and we are short of numbers in midfield so I would guess that is why he came back in.

10 minutes at the end of the game shouldn't really do him much damage.

No that's not my point, 10 minutes shouldn't do him any harm, but in the past, players would work there way back to fitness more gradually in the reserves and be ready to play for the first team from the start.

 

[Bluestar]

I agree on the last bit, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to make out that coming on for 10 minutes after 18 months out is going to help professional coaches and a hugely experienced manager decide whether they want to keep him next year. That can be assessed on his training, under 23s and run outs when he's ready to properly contribute, there's absolutely no need to be pushing him into the side just to see how good he is, it's not sunday league where a bloke's turned up claiming he used to play semi-pro and you want to see if he's having a laugh.

Ancelotti is quite cautious when it comes to players fitness. He clearly thinks he is ready. I’m not sure U23 football would tell him anything either, its a lower level than division two.

If Ancelotti doesn’t like what he sees, he won’t play. Just look at King.

Gbamin didn’t do anything to cause us to drop points and to be honest, I’m not sure what substitutions were could have made. Tge only other recognised first team player was King and it’s clear Ancelotti doesn’t trust him.