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John Stones

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joey_macmo said:
Exactly so he didnt put "faith" in Stones he waited until one of his old hands was crap.

Who exactly was past it and played on for 3 years?

More history being re-written i suspect
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Yes he did, he couold have gone and purchased an older player, but didnt.
 
Moyes would have had him at RB or maybe even holding midfield. Credit to Martinez for putting him in. That being said Moyes was never scared to go to the kids when injury dictated. Duffy got some games for example. Martinez in a way did a similar thing. Jags and Alcaraz were injured so Stones came in. The credit goes to Martinez for keeping him in when players have got back fit. Begs the question though if Jags and Distin has stayed fit for two seasons and not fallen out with Martinez (Distin) would we have seen Stones? Remember this season Martinez with a fit team opted again for Stones at RB and Distin in the back line rather than just replacing Coleman and keeping Stones in the middle.

I think in general Moyes takes too much stick for youth development. He gets blasted for Barkley but does Barkley look the finished article even now? Martinez has a 20 year old with two seasons of pl football behind him to call on and still isn't sure what to do with him and often drops him. Moyes had a 17 year old back from serious injury and had players like Cahill Gibson Osman and Fellaini ahead of him. Two of them are now gone, one is injured and the other three years older. So I think it's harsh to judge Moyes on Barkley especially when he gave him a perm debut at 16 and started him away at the Emirates and WHL in his favourite position at 17.

Martinez is in some respects doing the same. Barry is keeping Ledson or Lundstram out the side (no guarantees of course that either are good enough) Hibbert has been preferred when fit to Browning, Alcaraz over Browning and Galloway, Kone and Etoo over McCaleny and Long. These comparisons might seem ridiculous now but in my mind so did dropping first choice midfielders like Cahill and Fellaini to accommodate a 17 year old kid just back from a leg break.
 
joey_macmo said:
Are the above posters conveniently forgetting that in our biggest game of the season Martinez picked an old crock ahead of Stones?

He picked Stones last year when there were injuries, he played Distin ahead of him the start of this season.



Irony at its best
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Erm...wasn't Stones recovering from an illness? He missed the game before too? Distin fully deserved his place at the start of the season, but as each game went on he was worse and worse.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Moyes would have had him at RB or maybe even holding midfield. Credit to Martinez for putting him in. That being said Moyes was never scared to go to the kids when injury dictated. Duffy got some games for example. Martinez in a way did a similar thing. Jags and Alcaraz were injured so Stones came in. The credit goes to Martinez for keeping him in when players have got back fit. Begs the question though if Jags and Distin has stayed fit for two seasons and not fallen out with Martinez (Distin) would we have seen Stones? Remember this season Martinez with a fit team opted again for Stones at RB and Distin in the back line rather than just replacing Coleman and keeping Stones in the middle.

I think in general Moyes takes too much stick for youth development. He gets blasted for Barkley but does Barkley look the finished article even now? Martinez has a 20 year old with two seasons of pl football behind him to call on and still isn't sure what to do with him and often drops him. Moyes had a 17 year old back from serious injury and had players like Cahill Gibson Osman and Fellaini ahead of him. Two of them are now gone, one is injured and the other three years older. So I think it's harsh to judge Moyes on Barkley especially when he gave him a perm debut at 16 and started him away at the Emirates and WHL in his favourite position at 17.

Martinez is in some respects doing the same. Barry is keeping Ledson or Lundstram out the side (no guarantees of course that either are good enough) Hibbert has been preferred when fit to Browning, Alcaraz over Browning and Galloway, Kone and Etoo over McCaleny and Long. These comparisons might seem ridiculous now but in my mind so did dropping first choice midfielders like Cahill and Fellaini to accommodate a 17 year old kid just back from a leg break.
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Correction: Barry is keeping Besic out of the side and possibly Gibson when he isn't ill or injured. Agreed tho that there is no guarantee if they are good enough.
 

RadioFriendlyUnitShifter said:
Hardly. Loaned him out at RB, then only let him in the team out of position at RM. Only got to play RB when everyone else was injured.

Martinez didn't wait too long to put Stones in, and at CB too. Within a year he became first choice, at a younger age.
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This is like the Life of Brian sketch - Moist didnt do anything for him except buy him, loan him out for development, work him into the first team when he came back and then keep him in the side as he turned into one of the best right backs in the league.

There are sticks to beat Moist with, but Coleman and Stones arent those sticks.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Moyes would have had him at RB or maybe even holding midfield. Credit to Martinez for putting him in. That being said Moyes was never scared to go to the kids when injury dictated. Duffy got some games for example. Martinez in a way did a similar thing. Jags and Alcaraz were injured so Stones came in. The credit goes to Martinez for keeping him in when players have got back fit. Begs the question though if Jags and Distin has stayed fit for two seasons and not fallen out with Martinez (Distin) would we have seen Stones? Remember this season Martinez with a fit team opted again for Stones at RB and Distin in the back line rather than just replacing Coleman and keeping Stones in the middle.

I think in general Moyes takes too much stick for youth development. He gets blasted for Barkley but does Barkley look the finished article even now? Martinez has a 20 year old with two seasons of pl football behind him to call on and still isn't sure what to do with him and often drops him. Moyes had a 17 year old back from serious injury and had players like Cahill Gibson Osman and Fellaini ahead of him. Two of them are now gone, one is injured and the other three years older. So I think it's harsh to judge Moyes on Barkley especially when he gave him a perm debut at 16 and started him away at the Emirates and WHL in his favourite position at 17.

Martinez is in some respects doing the same. Barry is keeping Ledson or Lundstram out the side (no guarantees of course that either are good enough) Hibbert has been preferred when fit to Browning, Alcaraz over Browning and Galloway, Kone and Etoo over McCaleny and Long. These comparisons might seem ridiculous now but in my mind so did dropping first choice midfielders like Cahill and Fellaini to accommodate a 17 year old kid just back from a leg break.
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Barkley made his debut at 17
He was on the bench at 16
Right at the end of one season

Then got injured at the start of the next season in September
Recovered to make his debut 1st game of the following season against QPR which I think was season 11/12

The Spurs and arsenal games were at the end of the 12/13 season moyes's last in charge
After barkleys loan spell at shef wed & Leeds and he was 19

The arsenal game was about 7/8 games from the end of the season
We still had an outside chance of top 4
Barkley played as osman was injured and was our MOM.

The next game Was away at Sunderland and osman was brought back in for Ross
We lost 1-0 and are slim champions league place was gone
But osman kept his place for the next game

I could but wrong but I don't think Barkley played one minute of the remaining games even though we didn't have much to play for

Even moyes's last game in charge at Chelsea we couldn't move up or down no matter what the result
And he still didn't give any young players a game

I'm sure at 1-1 he took of an attacker for a defender and Torres scored late on for 2-1

Even in his last game having never won at a top fours ground
He's still trying to hang on for a point
That Sums him up
 

Stephenlloyd said:
Barkley made his debut at 17
He was on the bench at 16
Right at the end of one season

Then got injured at the start of the next season in September
Recovered to make his debut 1st game of the following season against QPR which I think was season 11/12

The Spurs and arsenal games were at the end of the 12/13 season moyes's last in charge
After barkleys loan spell at shef wed & Leeds and he was 19

The arsenal game was about 7/8 games from the end of the season
We still had an outside chance of top 4
Barkley played as osman was injured and was our MOM.

The next game Was away at Sunderland and osman was brought back in for Ross
We lost 1-0 and are slim champions league place was gone
But osman kept his place for the next game

I could but wrong but I don't think Barkley played one minute of the remaining games even though we didn't have much to play for

Even moyes's last game in charge at Chelsea we couldn't move up or down no matter what the result
And he still didn't give any young players a game

I'm sure at 1-1 he took of an attacker for a defender and Torres scored late on for 2-1

Even in his last game having never won at a top fours ground
He's still trying to hang on for a point
That Sums him up
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Not sure what the point is here? Martinez even now still sometimes picks Osman over Ross. Then you said Moyes gave him an early debut, a start at a young age then a loan spell then gradually introduced him into the team. We're safe now with nothing to play for but where are the hordes of youngsters? Barry is still starting every game. Even Besic can't get a look in. The more I see of Barkley the more I think Moyes was right how he handled him. He's struggling to perform consistently now yet you expect Moyes to have played him even more back when he was 18/19? I think Moyes was wrong with Rooney but not with Barkley.
 
I'd still say martinez was a little slow in bringing stones in, jags and distin were both horribly out of form for a good few games, our defence looked better last season in my opinion when stones was there as well, but credit where it is due, once he did see the stones effect he kept with him. He does have a habit of bringing back his favourites, in a similar way to Moyes so maybe had he not fell out with distin, he may well still have favoured him, but that's just guess work, and the defensive issue do appear to have been addressed to some extent
 
Walken said:
I'd still say martinez was a little slow in bringing stones in, jags and distin were both horribly out of form for a good few games, our defence looked better last season in my opinion when stones was there as well, but credit where it is due, once he did see the stones effect he kept with him. He does have a habit of bringing back his favourites, in a similar way to Moyes so maybe had he not fell out with distin, he may well still have favoured him, but that's just guess work, and the defensive issue do appear to have been addressed to some extent
Click to expand...

If we keep everyone fit next season it really does make you wonder what's stopping us. A great defense and guaranteed goals up front. Just sort the keeper, play two wide men and keep McCarthy fit and top 4 challenge is back on.
 
Walken said:
I'd still say martinez was a little slow in bringing stones in, jags and distin were both horribly out of form for a good few games, our defence looked better last season in my opinion when stones was there as well, but credit where it is due, once he did see the stones effect he kept with him. He does have a habit of bringing back his favourites, in a similar way to Moyes so maybe had he not fell out with distin, he may well still have favoured him, but that's just guess work, and the defensive issue do appear to have been addressed to some extent
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I assumed that Jagielka/Stones would be the first choice centre back pairing from the start of the season, as that is how we finished last.

I saw Distin's contract extension as a wise move at the time given his experience and his familiarity, ant thought he would provide cover in whatever was the 'lesser' fixture of the week of the PL/EL.
 
Saint Domingo said:
If we keep everyone fit next season it really does make you wonder what's stopping us. A great defense and guaranteed goals up front. Just sort the keeper, play two wide men and keep McCarthy fit and top 4 challenge is back on.
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despite how gash we have, I think we would all agree the potential is still there with this squad, a good summer, and a shift away from too much loyalty to certain players and more emphasis on balance and we could still move forward. Plenty of question marks over the gaffer for me still, but come next xmas I guess we will see what he has learned
 

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