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John Stones

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Jxg said:
He slipped.

It could happen to anyone.

If it happened to Alli would the media still be gushing from their orifices with praise for him? Yes. But it's Stones, so let's all get on the hate train for the best ball-playing centre back England will ever see. Knock his confidence down even more, that's what he needs.

Utter bellends, every single person who criticises him after this game.
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I like John, but this is a bit early mate ?
 
Jxg said:
He slipped.

It could happen to anyone.

If it happened to Alli would the media still be gushing from their orifices with praise for him? Yes. But it's Stones, so let's all get on the hate train for the best ball-playing centre back England will ever see. Knock his confidence down even more, that's what he needs.

Utter bellends, every single person who criticises him after this game.
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Only saw it briefly but it seems to me he slipped trying to do some flashy dribble when a safer option like a back pass was available?
 
Eric Djemba-Djemba said:
Martinez has ruined him this season.
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If anything Goodison has ruined him this season. Not Martinez. Fans so quick to get on his back. Almost being hounded out by some.

A fantastic player who will be at the very top of the game for years to come. If we, as a general support, can't see that then it will be to our great loss. I only hope that this spell of criticism means we get to keep him for longer than we perhaps would've. Our best centre half by an absolute mile.
 
toffeejack said:
keepers and centre backs develop at a later age, virtually anyone who knows anything about football knows this. Most people are still in education at 21, it's still a very young age in every day life, nevermind the pressure these footballers are under.
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Tell that to Raphael Varane though? Or Laporte? Or that lad at Hoffenheim whose name I can't remember? Or Marquinhos at PSG? Or Gimenez at Atletico/Uruguay? More to be mentioned here, but that's just off the top of my head.

Or as far as goalkeepers go - De Gea, Courtois, ter Stegen, Hart, Butland... Loads of others are first teamers and also national keepers and are under or around 25 with 100-odd games under their belts.

The above statement is only half-right (at best) now, and people should stop being under the illusion that it's still like that. Perhaps back in the day (LOL @ Goat's Baresi comparison) it was like that, but now? Not really. Age barrier is very much lowered with the newer generations - you've got access to technologies and training (and doping drugs @FCBarça ) that just wasn't around before, it's only natural players develop quicker.
 

Flynnthistle said:
If anything Goodison has ruined him this season. Not Martinez. Fans so quick to get on his back. Almost being hounded out by some.

A fantastic player who will be at the very top of the game for years to come. If we, as a general support, can't see that then it will be to our great loss. I only hope that this spell of criticism means we get to keep him for longer than we perhaps would've. Our best centre half by an absolute mile.
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Yay.....let's all blame the fans....:dance:
 
Don't usually watch England friendlies but caught 1st half.I'm sure really early on stones held onto the ball in a vulnerable position, almost got caught out and you could hear a big moan from the crowd. So it's not just Everton fans that moan when a player puts his side under needless pressure.
 
One of the best youngsters this country has produced in a long time.

Will be crucified by the media.

If he played for Spurs, Liverpool, heck, even West Ham, it wouldn't be happening.
 

Flynnthistle said:
If anything Goodison has ruined him this season. Not Martinez. Fans so quick to get on his back. Almost being hounded out by some.

A fantastic player who will be at the very top of the game for years to come. If we, as a general support, can't see that then it will be to our great loss. I only hope that this spell of criticism means we get to keep him for longer than we perhaps would've. Our best centre half by an absolute mile.
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See here is the thing, the fans are not giving him a hard time. (all my opinion this).

When your centre half is doing cruyff turns to the striker in his 6 yard box, of course the fans won't be happy with that. If the other lad had scored from it, it would hav been rightly classed as sunday league defending. So when the manager isn't coming out and basically calling him a tit for doing it and promising further coaching to help develop him then it raises issues.

Most fans know he isn't getting the support and development off the pitch, because none of them are. Considering his age, Stones should be getting every last bit of help on the training ground, but he clearly is just getting told to keep doing what he is doing, probably jags is his main trainer in that regard. Where MArtinez tells Barkely to just do his thing, its great because Ross can drive the ball forward, but elsewhere it doesn't work. When your centre half is messing about in his own box, or your young winger is just running into his man every time, then the coaching doesn't work.

So the overall point is, Stones is a victim of poor coaching, which translates into grumbles from the crowd when they can see that.
 
LinekersLegs said:
Going to be a rough couple of days for the poor lad with articles like this but, bit like how Barkley and Lukaku had a testing time last season, in the long term it will toughen him up.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/29/john-stones-england-holland-friendly
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This article really hits the nail on the head. The Dutch targeted him and quickly applied a press on him when in possession gambling on his desire to be that ball player first almost at the expense of what should be his first priority namely to get the ball away from the danger area.In reality teams have identified his desire to play the ball out and have turned it into a major flaw and knowing and seeing this and you will see more and more teams will apply that tactic.

Great ball playing defenders are few and far between and sorry he isn't , and I doubt ever, will be up there unless he somehow irons out this major flaw in his game. Not the ball playing bit but the ability to be more aware of what's going on around him and be a defender first.
 
Ashtonian said:
See here is the thing, the fans are not giving him a hard time. (all my opinion this).

When your centre half is doing cruyff turns to the striker in his 6 yard box, of course the fans won't be happy with that. If the other lad had scored from it, it would hav been rightly classed as sunday league defending. So when the manager isn't coming out and basically calling him a tit for doing it and promising further coaching to help develop him then it raises issues.

Most fans know he isn't getting the support and development off the pitch, because none of them are. Considering his age, Stones should be getting every last bit of help on the training ground, but he clearly is just getting told to keep doing what he is doing, probably jags is his main trainer in that regard. Where MArtinez tells Barkely to just do his thing, its great because Ross can drive the ball forward, but elsewhere it doesn't work. When your centre half is messing about in his own box, or your young winger is just running into his man every time, then the coaching doesn't work.

So the overall point is, Stones is a victim of poor coaching, which translates into grumbles from the crowd when they can see that.
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The coaching could have been better.

The fans could have been better.

Since Christmas, Stones himself could have been better.

At the end of the day this is a 21-year-old who has been through a rough patch of form where our own fans wanted him dropped.

Then he got injured and suddenly it's 'Why isn't Martinez playing Stones laaaaaaa', when he was simply being eased back while Funes-Mori and Jags were playing well.

I expect him to start most (if not all) of the games coming up for the rest of the season.
 
terraloon said:
This article really hits the nail on the head. The Dutch targeted him and quickly applied a press on him when in possession gambling on his desire to be that ball player first almost at the expense of his first priority namely to get the ball away from the danger area.In reality teams have identified his desire to play the ball out and have turned it into a major flaw and knowing and seeing this and you will see more and more teams will apply that tactic.

Great ball playing defenders are few and far between and sorry he isn't , and I doubt ever, will be up there unless he somehow irons out this major flaw in his game. Not the ball playing bit but the ability to be more aware of what's going on around him and be a defender first.
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He's 21 years old.

He's a centre back.

Centre backs peak at late twenties/30.

Last night the Dutch pressed everywhere because Roy (a lot like RM does) employed a gameplan which meant England sat back.

I was at the Holland - France game in Amsterdam the other night. France (10x the side of England, like),pressed Holland all over the place and that was that.

Roy played Stones as a left-centre half last night - a position he has never played in a partnership he has never played in in what is just his eighth cap.
 

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