2017/18 Jonjoe Kenny

[APN_EFC]

Because you either buy somebody else or you keep Martina as cover. Kenny hasn't been good enough this season and needs regular game time if he hopes to progress. He isn't good enough to mount a challenge to Coleman's position yet and when Coleman is out we lose a huge attacking presence. If Kenny is supposed to be the back up then he needs to improve and he won't do that by picking splinters out of his arse. Hence the loan.

I thought there are clauses you can write for calling back players?

Why can't Holgate be emergency right back cover (or even Davies), and if, god forbid, there's ever a longterm injury to Seamus we recall Jonjoe?

I guess it's not that attractive to a club

 

[Pabbers]

I thought there are clauses you can write for calling back players?

Why can't Holgate be emergency right back cover (or even Davies), and if, god forbid, there's ever a longterm injury to Seamus we recall Jonjoe?

I guess it's not that attractive to a club

So you want to loan out a right back, and use potentially our best centre back as cover!?!

Why not just keep the right back around coleman to help and develop him?? Is it not better him getting 15-20 games, while training with Coleman and the likes of Rooney.....Would that not be a great education!?!

Some lads need to go out on load to bulk up and learn the physical side of the game....something that Kenny does not need more of, he just needs refining!!

 

[Saint Domingo]

Kenny is better than Holgate at right back. Ok he’s not Seamus Coleman but who is.

 

[toffee-L]

Jesus, can we not just relax with our young lads and give them a break.

Kenny was very good for us, in a terrible season. Lets have some perspective!!!

Firstly Kenny hasn't been very good for us this season. His performances were massively overrated in some quarters to the extent that several people thought that he should keep Coleman's position upon his return. Coleman's performances since his return prove this was incredibly wayward thinking. I really admired Kenny's commitment and heart in what has been a dreadful season but at the end of the day he's probably getting paid quite well and application is the minimum requirement of a sportsman.

There is nothing wrong with supporting young players, but this support has to be measured sensibly otherwise you get people like Tony Hibbert getting to spend their entire careers here when they don't deserve too.

The "perspective" you mention in your post has to be redefined too. Instead of putting all of our youngsters under one umbrella why can we not differentiate between them? I think Holgate and Lookman for example have star potential, I have no idea why the former hasn't been in our team pre- injury and I have no idea why the latter was loaned out. Having said that I believe Kenny is a rung or two beneath these guys on the quality ladder, I believe he would benefit from a loan away because he needs to show something over an entire season that he is good enough to play for us. If he can he definitely has a future here.

 

[Pabbers]

Firstly Kenny hasn't been very good for us this season. His performances were massively overrated in some quarters to the extent that several people thought that he should keep Coleman's position upon his return. Coleman's performances since his return prove this was incredibly wayward thinking. I really admired Kenny's commitment and heart in what has been a dreadful season but at the end of the day he's probably getting paid quite well and application is the minimum requirement of a sportsman.

There is nothing wrong with supporting young players, but this support has to be measured sensibly otherwise you get people like Tony Hibbert getting to spend their entire careers here when they don't deserve too.

The "perspective" you mention in your post has to be redefined too. Instead of putting all of our youngsters under one umbrella why can we not differentiate between them? I think Holgate and Lookman for example have star potential, I have no idea why the former hasn't been in our team pre- injury and I have no idea why the latter was loaned out. Having said that I believe Kenny is a rung or two beneath these guys on the quality ladder, I believe he would benefit from a loan away because he needs to show something over an entire season that he is good enough to play for us. If he can he definitely has a future here.

For 1, i think you are wrong. He was good for us, he really settled into the team and showed he has plenty to give.

Perspective, you need to look at the terrible side he was in. Different crntre back, struggling side, anti football, defensive instructions etc. These all need to be cobsidered....so for me these are all the things you would send him on loan to sample.

So all considered, he did very well in difficult circumstances, and has earned the right to a chance to be in that squad. Older, and better payed players showed muh less than he did, and get a free pass.

 

[toffee-L]

For 1, i think you are wrong. He was good for us, he really settled into the team and showed he has plenty to give.

Perspective, you need to look at the terrible side he was in. Different crntre back, struggling side, anti football, defensive instructions etc. These all need to be cobsidered....so for me these are all the things you would send him on loan to sample.

So all considered, he did very well in difficult circumstances, and has earned the right to a chance to be in that squad. Older, and better payed players showed muh less than he did, and get a free pass.

Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree on how much quality he has displayed this season.

However I take issue with the last part of your post, I can't think of any senior players that have gotten a free pass this season, they don't deserve one by the way but the fact you haven't seen or have chosen not to see the criticism levelled at the gutless group of cowards we are forced to watch pull on the blue shirt every week suggests to me you spend far more time looking to jump to the defence of young players than you do assessing the squad based on merit.

Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Williams, Baines, Bolasie, Jagielka, Keane, Mirallas, Martina... If you think any of these players (amongst others who I may have forgotten) have been given a free pass at any point this season I don't know what to tell you. These players have been given more criticism than anyone else in the squad, deservedly I must add but they have certainly not gotten "free passes".

 

[Barnfred 55]

Firstly Kenny hasn't been very good for us this season

Disagree with this mate. He had a patchy start, but I 100% put that down to being totally mismanaged by Koeman. Kenny should have been bedded into the first team early doors when we were playing half a dozen euro qualifiers, instead of using Martina and paying Holgate out of position. When he was finally introduced it was into an under performing team that was all over the place defensively. He was up against some top class players in those early games too, with zero help from the experienced defenders who all went missing. Somehow he got through that initial spell and improved game by game until he probably became our most consistent defender. @AndyC could probably shed more light on that from our MOM votes but I'm sure he was pushing for player of the month around December and January.

I agree that the shouts for him to replace Coleman were a bit daft. But so too were those fans expecting him to be as good as Seamus offensively and then using that as a stick to beat him with.

It's great to have Seamus back as he adds a dimension to our play that has been missing for a year. But Kenny has still won his spurs this season and has earned his right to be back up to Coleman next season. He will learn a lot more training with the master and being challenged up against world class players when he gets his opportunities, than he will playing week in against mediocrity in the championship. I fully agree with @Pabbers in that regard.

 

[dannyboy]

For 1, i think you are wrong. He was good for us, he really settled into the team and showed he has plenty to give.

Perspective, you need to look at the terrible side he was in. Different crntre back, struggling side, anti football, defensive instructions etc. These all need to be cobsidered....so for me these are all the things you would send him on loan to sample.

So all considered, he did very well in difficult circumstances, and has earned the right to a chance to be in that squad. Older, and better payed players showed muh less than he did, and get a free pass.

He came in and did a job defensively at times. I personally think he has to show a lot of development to be here for the long haul.

Right now, if he went on loan to the Championship I doubt he'd play regular football. He just doesn't do anything that you're run of the mill full back doesn't do anyway. Rather than the Tony Hibbert comparisons, I see him more as a Jon Flanagan type.

 

[Eggs]

Because you either buy somebody else or you keep Martina as cover. Kenny hasn't been good enough this season and needs regular game time if he hopes to progress. He isn't good enough to mount a challenge to Coleman's position yet and when Coleman is out we lose a huge attacking presence. If Kenny is supposed to be the back up then he needs to improve and he won't do that by picking splinters out of his arse. Hence the loan.

...let’s not forget, Kenny has hardly had an effective wide player in front of him. Walcott’s arrival almost coincided with Coleman’s return. Kenny hasn’t got the attacking presence of Coleman but not many have. Anybody who has witnessed the Kenny/Dowell right sided partnership will know Kenny is decent in the top third.

 

[Barnfred 55]

He came in and did a job defensively at times. I personally think he has to show a lot of development to be here for the long haul.

Right now, if he went on loan to the Championship I doubt he'd play regular football. He just doesn't do anything that you're run of the mill full back doesn't do anyway. Rather than the Tony Hibbert comparisons, I see him more as a Jon Flanagan type.

Think you and I must have been watching different players as I dont agree with any of that.. After Holgate he's been our best defender IMO.

 

[dannyboy]

Think you and I must have been watching different players as I dont agree with any of that.. After Holgate he's been our best defender IMO.

He's done alright defensively in a few games and awfully in others. On the ball he has been poor and that's what makes me doubt his future as a top level player. Modern day full backs need to be able to bomb on, right now he doesn't look capable of doing much more than punting the ball down the line.

You can teach the defensive side of the game to players (look at Coleman) but you can't really develop the natural ability with the ball at your feet. Maybe he will grow in confidence, hope he does.

 

[Barnfred 55]

He's done alright defensively in a few games and awfully in others. On the ball he has been poor and that's what makes me doubt his future as a top level player. Modern day full backs need to be able to bomb on, right now he doesn't look capable of doing much more than punting the ball down the line.

You can teach the defensive side of the game to players (look at Coleman) but you can't really develop the natural ability with the ball at your feet. Maybe he will grow in confidence, hope he does.

As I said earlier. I dont agree with any of that either.

 

[MikeH72]

Absolutely grim this.

 

[jtl60]

Jeez. He's a young kid with a big heart being thrust into a team defending really badly.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

If he was foreign we'd all be desperate for the club to get rid. Same as Davies and Calvert Lewin.