2017/18 Kieran Dowell

[Brisan123]

He's behind Martina and Holgate.

Are you sure
Martina had a higher level of fitness coming into last thursdays game that's why he played imo
Wait till the season starts ?
I'd say Holgate then Kenny then Martina

 

[davek]

It's not about the hoofing or lack of silky passing movement (which incidentally is free from a huge number of top flight games where hoofing often takes precedent) but the expectations and pressures of actual competitive football.

You dont think there was competitive pressure in winning the WC?

 

[davek]

Monopoly and word game trophy don't count Dave

Tell him that.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Would you advise Juan Mata, David Silva, Mesut Ozil to 'toughen up'?

There's some terrible points of view amongst our supporters that all our players should be like caged fighters if they look to have a lot of talent.

It's like just having talent isn't enough...it;s not to be trusted unless it's able to smash an opponent to bits too.

This from the fans of a club that prides itself on being called the School of Science...more gladiator school.

Unreal.

At Dowell's age, Mata was playing for Real Madrid Castilla ( Real's reserve team ) in Spain's third division.
At the age of 18, so a tad younger than Dowell, silva was also playing in Spain's lower leagues with Valencia's reserve team
Ozil's the only one who didn't play in the lower leagues. He was playing for Schalke's first team.

So, two out of three you used in your argument were toughening up in a crap Spanish league when they were much the same age as Dowell, doubtless this helped develop the mental toughness in them which we can see so obviously now, and may go some way towards explaining why Ozil doesn't look as good as them.

Facts David, pesky things, but true !

 

[Thomasc]

At Dowell's age, Mata was playing for Real Madrid Castilla ( Real's reserve team ) in Spain's third division.
At the age of 18, so a tad younger than Dowell, silva was also playing in Spain's lower leagues with Valencia's reserve team
Ozil's the only one who didn't play in the lower leagues. He was playing for Schalke's first team.

So, two out of three you used in your argument were toughening up in a crap Spanish league when they were much the same age as Dowell, doubtless this helped develop the mental toughness in them which we can see so obviously now, and may go some way towards explaining why Ozil doesn't look as good as them.

Facts David, pesky things, but true !

Credit where credit is due, that was a wonderfully researched and informed post.

 

[davek]

At Dowell's age, Mata was playing for Real Madrid Castilla ( Real's reserve team ) in Spain's third division.
At the age of 18, so a tad younger than Dowell, silva was also playing in Spain's lower leagues with Valencia's reserve team
Ozil's the only one who didn't play in the lower leagues. He was playing for Schalke's first team.

So, two out of three you used in your argument were toughening up in a crap Spanish league when they were much the same age as Dowell, doubtless this helped develop the mental toughness in them which we can see so obviously now, and may go some way towards explaining why Ozil doesn't look as good as them.

Facts David, pesky things, but true !

What makes you think those Spanish leagues were hoofball? Doesn't ring true does it?

 

[Woolly Blue]

What makes you think those Spanish leagues were hoofball? Doesn't ring true does it?

Good lord man, have you ever watched Spanish lower league footie ? ( that's a rhetorical question, you plainly havn't).

Tis agricultural at best, but, playing against the sort of grocks they were, gave them chance to hone their skills in keeping away from defenders who'd go through them in the blink of an eye. That sort of background then translates better through to top level footie in this country, even more so than it does in Spain, especially when you look at some of the grock defenders there are in the lower reaches of the Premier League.

If players can dance round grock defenders in the lower league of Spain and the Championship here, then it'll stand them in good stead as they progress in their careers

 

[ClausThomsen]

You dont think there was competitive pressure in winning the WC?

Not of the same kind no.

In the grand scale of things youth international tournaments do not garner a great deal of interest. They get more of a mention if there's a feelgood story, especially during the slow summer months for football, but that's about it.

The Championship and the divisions below it get more attention, are followed with more fervour and generate more pressure for those involved. The standard of player is also generally better given it's open age.

 

[davek]

Not of the same kind no.

In the grand scale of things youth international tournaments do not garner a great deal of interest. They get more of a mention if there's a feelgood story, especially during the slow summer months for football, but that's about it.

The Championship and the divisions below it get more attention, are followed with more fervour and generate more pressure for those involved. The standard of player is also generally better given it's open age.

The only reason anyone watches the Championship is to see the type of meaty challenges that cant be allowed in the PL. That's it's USP: a throwback to the bad old days when snides and hardmen stalked the earth....and now we've seen Dowell thrown into it.

 

[ClausThomsen]

What makes you think those Spanish leagues were hoofball? Doesn't ring true does it?

Being based in Spain does not guarantee wonderful technical proficiency and flair filled football.

 

[Adam-GOTTV]

What's the actual real harm in him going out on loan to a big club in a tough division? It'll be good for him imo.

 

[ClausThomsen]

The only reason anyone watches the Championship is to see the type of meaty challenges that cant be allowed in the PL. That's it's USP: a throwback to the bad old days when snides and hardmen stalked the earth....and now we've seen Dowell thrown into it.

Or maybe because the side they support is in the Championship? If you honestly can't wrap your head around the fact that there is some good, entertaining and technically proficient football played in the Championship then you simply don't watch any.

And if you think the Prem or Spanish football is free of snides and hardmen then you are deluded, have completely missed Diego Costa or have just not been paying attention. Grok-esque football can often help a side out regardless of the level being played at. Athletico Madrid for instance.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Or maybe because the side they support is in the Championship? If you honestly can't wrap your head around the fact that there is some good, entertaining and technically proficient football played in the Championship then you simply don't watch any.

And if you think the Prem or Spanish football is free of snides and hardmen then you are simply deluded, have completely missed Diego Costa or just not paying attention. Grok-esque football can often help a side out regardless of the level being played at. Athletico Madrid for instance.

Psst, he's not actually being serious mate

 

[willo30]

The only reason anyone watches the Championship is to see the type of meaty challenges that cant be allowed in the PL. That's it's USP: a throwback to the bad old days when snides and hardmen stalked the earth....and now we've seen Dowell thrown into it.

What would you prefer? Leave him in the U23's for a few more years to hone his skills or give him a year or 2 on loan to hone them quicker because he will get swallowed up in the PL/EL at his age as he is just not good enough yet.

 

[davek]

What would you prefer? Leave him in the U23's for a few more years to hone his skills or give him a year or 2 on loan to hone them quicker because he will get swallowed up in the PL/EL at his age as he is just not good enough yet.

I'd prefer he got the same go as Davies.