Leighton Baines

[davek]

I for one disagree, he gave the fans great pleasure and I thank goodness he was at our club for awhile. World class striker in my book.

I dont think there's a single Everton supporter who;d view him as one of our greats.

If he'd won the double that season (and it was within reach) or even an FA Cup with that opener he had in the final against that lot, he would be a legend. But he didn't, and he stands as an example that when the reckoning is made we have a very particular criteria by which we measure 'outstanding' or 'great' or 'hero' or 'legend'

 

[roydo]

I dont think there's a single Everton supporter who;d view him as one of our greats.

If he'd won the double that season (and it was within reach) or even an FA Cup with that opener he had in the final against that lot, he would be a legend. But he didn't, and he stands as an example that when the reckoning is made we have a very particular criteria by which we measure 'outstanding' or 'great' or 'hero' or 'legend'

Agree.

But I dont subscribe to your view that the definitive measure is a trophy. A trophy will elevate an Ok player to a status beyond his talent, but a talented player without a pot does not equate him to being less of a lesser player, or contributor to our rich history.

Bob Latchford will forever be a club icon, imo. Won £10k from a newspaper.

 

[Toffeelover]

I dont think there's a single Everton supporter who;d view him as one of our greats.

If he'd won the double that season (and it was within reach) or even an FA Cup with that opener he had in the final against that lot, he would be a legend. But he didn't, and he stands as an example that when the reckoning is made we have a very particular criteria by which we measure 'outstanding' or 'great' or 'hero' or 'legend'

Never said he was a legend but that he did give the fans a lot of pleasure and it was good to have him at the club. In fact signing was a real coup.

 

[davek]

Was going use him as an example, but as you say, he was passing though. Never an Evertonian.

But if he had stayed, scored 30 to 40 goals every season for 5 years, and we didnt win any pots, he would be remembered as an outstanding player.

And neither did Mike Lyons. Not many on here would say he is not a Blue of the highest quality. Outstanding some would say.

I love Mick Lyons. He's a very special player to anyone growing up with the team at that point. But he was never an oustanding player. As much as I'd love it to be the case. Local lad with the heart of a lion and utterly despised those gets. What wasn't to like?

On Lineker: we had Cottee come in and scored like a machine for a few seasons. Again: nowhere near any list of outstanding achievement.

It's all about silverware. That's why players crave it - they know they can have a Kings ransom but it'll mean only something to themselves and their family who share it. To be remembered and revered it's medals in the drawer and trophies in the cabinet.

 

[davek]

Agree.

But I dont subscribe to your view that the definitive measure is a trophy. A trophy will elevate an Ok player to a status beyond his talent, but a talented player without a pot does not equate him to being less of a lesser player, or contributor to our rich history.

Bob Latchford will forever be a club icon, imo. Won £10k from a newspaper.

Fair enough mate, and that's where we part company on the subject.

 

[Goat]

I dont think there's a single Everton supporter who;d view him as one of our greats.

If he'd won the double that season (and it was within reach) or even an FA Cup with that opener he had in the final against that lot, he would be a legend. But he didn't, and he stands as an example that when the reckoning is made we have a very particular criteria by which we measure 'outstanding' or 'great' or 'hero' or 'legend'

You seem to be struggling.

outstanding
aʊtˈstandɪŋ/
adjective

1. 1.
   exceptionally good.
   "the team's outstanding performance"
   synonyms: excellent, marvellous, magnificent, superb, fine, wonderful,superlative, exceptional, formidable, first-class, first-rate,virtuoso, skilful, masterful, masterly;

 

[davek]

You seem to be struggling.

outstanding
aʊtˈstandɪŋ/
adjective

1. 1.
   exceptionally good.
   "the team's outstanding performance"
   synonyms: excellent, marvellous, magnificent, superb, fine, wonderful,superlative, exceptional, formidable, first-class, first-rate,virtuoso, skilful, masterful, masterly;

This debate's over mate. You lost.

 

[Goat]

This debate's over mate. You lost.

You lost as soon as you mentioned the word outstanding with regards Gary Ablett.

 

[davek]

You lost as soon as you mentioned the word outstanding with regards Gary Ablett.

Boooo. Dont diss Gary. Boooo!

 

[roydo]

It's all about silverware

It is, ultimately. As a reference point in the history books.

But not winning something as an Evertonian is not a precursor to not being an outstanding player. Or an icon. (still not quite sure how you qualify) for that)

And the opposite is true. Lyons, Latchford, Thomas, Wood, King, woven into the fabric of our club.

 

[Jebus_lives]

This debate's over mate. You lost.

I've said it before but plenty of players are outstanding players who haven't won trophies. Seems an odd measure of an individuals achievements to say they won nothing in the teams they played under.

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

A trophy will elevate an Ok player to a status beyond his talent, but a talented player without a pot does not equate him to being less of a lesser player, or contributor to our rich history.

 

[davek]

It is, ultimately. As a reference point in the history books.

But not winning something as an Evertonian is not a precursor to not being an outstanding player. Or an icon. (still not quite sure how you qualify) for that)

And the opposite is true. Lyons, Latchford, Thomas, Wood, King, woven into the fabric of our club.

Goat determines it.

 

[davek]

I've said it before but plenty of players are outstanding players who haven't won trophies. Seems an odd measure of an individuals achievements to say they won nothing in the teams they played under.

I praised Baines. In his pomp he was a destructive attacking force in tow with his partner Pienaar.

If that's your definition of outstanding then maybe it is that broad and he fits it. And maybe mine is too narrow?

I dont know.

In short for me: good but no cigar...or trophy.

 

[Groucho]

It is, ultimately. As a reference point in the history books.

But not winning something as an Evertonian is not a precursor to not being an outstanding player. Or an icon. (still not quite sure how you qualify) for that)

And the opposite is true. Lyons, Latchford, Thomas, Wood, King, woven into the fabric of our club.

Goat determines it.

Well look, this will be forever subjective.

Tim Cahill won sod all, is he a legend? Some would say yes, some no.