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Liverpool council threaten legal action over Merseyside derby

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The reason why they have objected is the blame game.

If there is trouble then the FA will fine us and blame us/them for the behaviour of the supporters.

With the council and the Police complaining (incidentally they are supposed to have input in any change of kick off) switches the focus onto the FA with the council and Police then telling them 'nowt to do with us, we told you of the pitfalls'.
 
BoysInBlue said:
The biggest public contradiction so far that we can nail them on in terms of bias is this in Wednesday's Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-clash-at-Everton-prompts-disorder-fears.html



Exhibit A:
Liverpool vs Everton - Sunday 16 January 2011 - kick off time: 2:05pm on Sky.

Exhibit B:
Liverpool vs Everton - Sunday 25 January 2009 - kick off time: 4pm on ITV.

So the police report to the 'ground safety advisory committee' was factually incorrect in terms of when its 'position' is adhered to, or at the very least, being very selective in the historical timeframe it is using.

If the argument is that they are using the 'most up to date historical evidence' then that is flawed too, as the most up to date evidence from the last Derby 3 months ago had Merseyside police praising both sets of fans for their 'impeccable behaviour':

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-everton-fans-praised-behaving-7845279
Click to expand...

Okay, both of those were Sundays, but so was the 1.30 kick off on a Bank Holiday Sunday in May 2 seasons ago. Given the propensity of people to go out on the Sunday when its a Bank Holiday weekend, Im sure town was pretty rammed that day.

Its all my arse. When it comes to football fans, the police really are scumbags. No surprises and more than a hint of irony this all comes up while the Hillsborough inquests are ongoing. As much as we like to think times have changed and the attitudes of those in charge have moved on, they havent. The fans have, the kind of trouble in the 80s that ultimately led to the conditions at Hillsborough, the fences, the way fans were treated etc. just doesnt happen anymore. But the police still hold those attitudes. In 12 months, we have first been blamed for a crush outside the turnstiles at Anfield that was caused by sheer incompetence of the police force, but of course, they passed the blame on to us, just as they did in 89. Now they are going on like we are slavering violent drunken inhuman oafs who cant control ourselves because the Derby kicks off a little later. Worse happens in the city centre every week (and every town and city centre in the country) than ever happens at Goodison or Anfield, but you dont see them clamouring to shut Concert Square when the sun goes down, or ban the Krazyhouse from selling alcohol because some of their patrons cant hold their ale. Its just pathetic social typecasting of football fans as usual. The lessons of Hillsborough seemingly havent been learnt yet by the police at least.

It would do me a favour ironically if the game got moved to the early kick off, but that really isnt the point. Why should we move it and let them continue to peddle myths about football fans all being drunken violent thugs?

Khalekan said:
Here's another thought.

Suppose we meet the RS in the F.A. Cup Final?

That is now a permanent 5.30ish kick off down in that London.

Will the Met follow the lead of the local Biz and try and have the kick off fetched forward?

Who the heck could blame them if they did?
Click to expand...

Fortunately, the Met are a proper police force who generally know how to handle football fans and dont go whinging every time they actually have to do their job. Arsenal vs Spurs kicked off at 5.30 earlier this season. They've had all London FA Cup semi finals at Wembley in the past, Arsenal vs Chelsea in 09 was a 5.30, City played United at 5.30 in the semi a couple of years ago, and Chelsea played Spurs in the semi at something silly like 6 on a Sunday once. The 12.45 we had when we played THEM at Wembley was nothing to do with the Met, just a few other hand wringers looking for something to bloody moan about.
 

I think serious questions need to be asked of Merseyside police if they believe that it is necessary to move the derby game to an earlier kick off time, I'd even suggest fans boycott the game. When Newcastle played Sunderland last weekend the police took a relaxed attitude to policing, they allowed Sunderland fans to walk through the city centre without an escort. There were no real problems there, so I don't know why there would be any problems. Before derbies our fans drink around Walton and Kirkdale and their fans drink around Anfield. Somebody told me there were a few fights in pubs this season when they game was at 12:45 so it proves that morons will get drunk and act like idiots no matter what time the game kicks off. To be honest I would only drink 2 pints at the most before going to the match because anymore, you just spend most of the game desperate for a piss.
 
Smudge1985 said:
Okay, both of those were Sundays, but so was the 1.30 kick off on a Bank Holiday Sunday in May 2 seasons ago. Given the propensity of people to go out on the Sunday when its a Bank Holiday weekend, Im sure town was pretty rammed that day.

Its all my arse. When it comes to football fans, the police really are scumbags. No surprises and more than a hint of irony this all comes up while the Hillsborough inquests are ongoing. As much as we like to think times have changed and the attitudes of those in charge have moved on, they havent. The fans have, the kind of trouble in the 80s that ultimately led to the conditions at Hillsborough, the fences, the way fans were treated etc. just doesnt happen anymore. But the police still hold those attitudes. In 12 months, we have first been blamed for a crush outside the turnstiles at Anfield that was caused by sheer incompetence of the police force, but of course, they passed the blame on to us, just as they did in 89. Now they are going on like we are slavering violent drunken inhuman oafs who cant control ourselves because the Derby kicks off a little later. Worse happens in the city centre every week (and every town and city centre in the country) than ever happens at Goodison or Anfield, but you dont see them clamouring to shut Concert Square when the sun goes down, or ban the Krazyhouse from selling alcohol because some of their patrons cant hold their ale. Its just pathetic social typecasting of football fans as usual. The lessons of Hillsborough seemingly havent been learnt yet by the police at least.

It would do me a favour ironically if the game got moved to the early kick off, but that really isnt the point. Why should we move it and let them continue to peddle myths about football fans all being drunken violent thugs?



Fortunately, the Met are a proper police force who generally know how to handle football fans and dont go whinging every time they actually have to do their job. Arsenal vs Spurs kicked off at 5.30 earlier this season. They've had all London FA Cup semi finals at Wembley in the past, Arsenal vs Chelsea in 09 was a 5.30, City played United at 5.30 in the semi a couple of years ago, and Chelsea played Spurs in the semi at something silly like 6 on a Sunday once. The 12.45 we had when we played THEM at Wembley was nothing to do with the Met, just a few other hand wringers looking for something to bloody moan about.
Click to expand...
Great post. (PS wasn't the semi KO even earlier than 12.45?)
 
JelavicBrate said:
When Newcastle played Sunderland last weekend the police took a relaxed attitude to policing, they allowed Sunderland fans to walk through the city centre without an escort.
Click to expand...

Interesrting point this, the local police are more or less saying that they dont trust the people of Merseyside to behave.

Are they saying there will be more people in town? A good thing for small buisnesses perhaps who might benefit from the extra footfall, what about them?
 
If the criteria for determining what events should be altered because of the possibility of poor behaviour was the same as that apparently being used for football events there'd be no social events permitted if alcohol was likely to be consumed in above normal quantities. Included in bannings would be Council organised Beatles Festivals etc where booze is consumed in massive quantities (with attendant fighting etc).
 
Smudge1985 said:
Fortunately, the Met are a proper police force who generally know how to handle football fans and dont go whinging every time they actually have to do their job. Arsenal vs Spurs kicked off at 5.30 earlier this season. They've had all London FA Cup semi finals at Wembley in the past, Arsenal vs Chelsea in 09 was a 5.30, City played United at 5.30 in the semi a couple of years ago, and Chelsea played Spurs in the semi at something silly like 6 on a Sunday once. The 12.45 we had when we played THEM at Wembley was nothing to do with the Met, just a few other hand wringers looking for something to bloody moan about.
Click to expand...

In fairness it should be pointed out perhaps that the resources available to the Met are, even in these straitened times, vastly more than that available to Merseyside Police and even something like the FA Cup Final never dominates those resources in the way that the derby does to Merseyside Police in Liverpool.

Also, in what may be a related aside, it does cost them more (in terms of costs per officer) to police later games because ever since the Winsor reforms were brought in they all get more money for working "unsociable" (after 8pm) hours now.
 

tsubaki said:
In fairness it should be pointed out perhaps that the resources available to the Met are, even in these straitened times, vastly more than that available to Merseyside Police and even something like the FA Cup Final never dominates those resources in the way that the derby does to Merseyside Police in Liverpool.

Also, in what may be a related aside, it does cost them more (in terms of costs per officer) to police later games because ever since the Winsor reforms were brought in they all get more money for working "unsociable" (after 8pm) hours now.
Click to expand...

The problem is, all of this is true, and is likely the REAL reason why they're objecting to the 5:30 kick off. Except instead of saying this, they make up slurs about fans potentially misbehaving.
 
It's more about it being a Saturday night and stretching resources between the stadium and the town centre nightlife. The "hooligan" excuse is just that; an excuse.
 
The only hooligans at football these days is the police. And big thanks to Merseyside police and our own city council, who have shown their true colours in what they think of us football fans. The rest of the country think we are yobs we don't need our own authorities agreeing with them.
 
Police don't have the numbers to police a high profile football game and a buisy night in town at the same time.

Sunday night or midweek is different because you don't get the same number of people in town as on a Saturday
 

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