2021/22 Lucas Digne

[MikeH72]

The minute we buy someone that's 28 a load of people go "ergh, no resale".

But it’s a fair point though. Digne is a great example of why you should buy players young, we’ve had 4 years out of him and are still going to sell him for a profit. We’re crippled as a business essentially from buying 28 year olds for massive money and releasing them on frees.

 

[phil_t98]

The fitness levels players are at now, it's ridiculous to just pull the plug on a player who's still performing...just because he could "go downhill".

United allways eyed up an improved replacement, they never willfully sold one of their better players because they hit 30. Fergie brought Scholes back at 36 cos there was no one better than him to add quality.

The Digne situation is completely different as it's a fallout with the manager rather than it being a strategic move to get rid of an aging asset at a high value. No fallout, he's still playing cos he's a good player.

Completely disagree and that’s ok. He hasn’t performed well last couple of seasons, yes his stats are good going forward but we didn’t have Gray or Townsend then so I think his stats wouldn’t be as good as we use them going forward now. His defensive stats are ok but he was needed to defend more. If he got asked to do that and fell out with the manager then its also right to move him on

 

[BlueToff]

Prior to FFP dat mate.

Would be silly doing dat these days unless FFP wasn't a problem for you.

Sadly for us we are close to the limit - Digne oot and 3-4 signings in makes sense ultimately.

Just got to hope the new signings are of a good quality.

I'm pretty sure the Prem had P&S rules in place then, not to the extent/strictness now but they did have them in place.

FFP and the Prem's P&S riles are different beasts. FFP has no impact on us unless we get into Europe. Which right now we're more likely to be worrying about parachute payments tbh.

 

[kenada_blue]

Prior to FFP dat mate.

Would be silly doing dat these days unless FFP wasn't a problem for you.

Sadly for us we are close to the limit - Digne oot and 3-4 signings in makes sense ultimately.

Just got to hope the new signings are of a good quality.

What's the age of the player got to do with FFP? If we sold Digne and bought in Alba at 32 who then ripped it up, would people have complained? Absolutely.

The idea of selling to buy is what we've done. The reasoning of selling said player before he goes "downhill" is the issue I have as he's still a quality player.

 

[BlueToff]

Completely disagree and that’s ok. He hasn’t performed well last couple of seasons, yes his stats are good going forward but we didn’t have Gray or Townsend then so I think his stats wouldn’t be as good as we use them going forward now. His defensive stats are ok but he was needed to defend more. If he got asked to do that and fell out with the manager then its also right to move him on

Gray has only just overtaken Digne for chances created this season in the league though, mate... He's just now onto 23, having played four games more. Digne's on 22 - he's still our third-most creative player (and based on minutes played he'll be our most creative) and even though he was taken off set-pieces after the Burnley game, has still created the most chances that led to a shot from set-pieces in the squad - so it basically shows that Townsend and Gray's quality from set-pieces is really, really lacking because I think Digne's corners have been pretty crap since about March last season tbh.

But when you say he 'hasn't performed well' it's just not true. Not for the last couple of seasons. I'll give you this season, and maybe a bit of last towards the end when the whole team was playing poorly, but he was brilliant at the start of last season. He was very good in 19-20 and he was excellent in his first season with us.

My issue with allowing a fallout this manager to dictate any business at the club is because this manager should never in a million years be here. We will look back at this time in a few years and genuinely think 'what the f*** were we doing', mate.

 

[MikeH72]

What's the age of the player got to do with FFP? If we sold Digne and bought in Alba at 32 who then ripped it up, would people have complained? Absolutely.

The idea of selling to buy is what we've done. The reasoning of selling said player before he goes "downhill" is the issue I have as he's still a quality player.

We have to be smarter as a business. We lose £100m+ every year, that is not sustainable and can’t be allowed to continue, we have to start making money back somewhere. What’s the point keeping Digne around for another 3 years to help us finish 12th a few times and then losing him on a free? You may not like it but football is a business and we will not survive as a club if we’re haemorrhaging money left right and centre.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Gray has only just overtaken Digne for chances created this season in the league though, mate... He's just now onto 23, having played four games more. Digne's on 22 - he's still our third-most creative player (and based on minutes played he'll be our most creative) and even though he was taken off set-pieces after the Burnley game, has still created the most chances that led to a shot from set-pieces in the squad - so it basically shows that Townsend and Gray's quality from set-pieces is really, really lacking because I think Digne's corners have been pretty crap since about March last season tbh.

But when you say he 'hasn't performed well' it's just not true. Not for the last couple of seasons. I'll give you this season, and maybe a bit of last towards the end when the whole team was playing poorly, but he was brilliant at the start of last season. He was very good in 19-20 and he was excellent in his first season with us.

My issue with allowing a fallout this manager to dictate any business at the club is because this manager should never in a million years be here. We will look back at this time in a few years and genuinely think 'what the f*** were we doing', mate.

Conjecture that mate.

He could easily turn things around with a few good signings.

I repeat we've just finished 10th & 12th under one of the most decorated managers of all time.

This squad isn't very good and is overhyped by many.

 

[kenada_blue]

Completely disagree and that’s ok. He hasn’t performed well last couple of seasons, yes his stats are good going forward but we didn’t have Gray or Townsend then so I think his stats wouldn’t be as good as we use them going forward now. His defensive stats are ok but he was needed to defend more. If he got asked to do that and fell out with the manager then its also right to move him on

The whole team can't defend at the moment, Digne isn't the reason for that. And it's not like Benitez has bought a defensive minded replacement either.

He hasn't also been sold because he can't defend or play Raffa way, he's be sold because he questioned the managers tactics.

People are making out that he's Cuco Martina levels of defending when he's not, he pretty much the above standard for a left back in world football for defending. The lad across the park is an horrific defender...but world class crosser of the ball. It's the modern game. You won't find a fullback who just defends.

 

[BlueToff]

We have to be smarter as a business. We lose £100m+ every year, that is not sustainable and can’t be allowed to continue, we have to start making money back somewhere. What’s the point keeping Digne around for another 3 years to help us finish 12th a few times and then losing him on a free? You may not like it but football is a business and we will not survive as a club if we’re haemorrhaging money left right and centre.

Yeah this side of it is totally fine. I have no issue if we get a good fee for him. It's short-term pain for long-term gain, hopefully.

My issue with is the narrative he's been crap for 17 years or whatever, that he's 29 (he's 28 until he's 29) and the real problem I have with it is that we're letting a fallout with a manager who shouldn't be here dictate what happens, even if the outcome is actually probably good for the club (albeit, that fee we're paying for Mykolenko is a lot).

I wonder who the next player will be and when it is, whether the same fans will side with the manager again. I know you aren't doing, you're looking at it at selling a big earner at the right time and I'm with you on that. I'm not overly precious about any of our players. I'm gutted that Mina's injury record is so bad because if he could just stay fit we'd have a 27-year-old CB playing as well as most others in the league when he's fit. It's going to be hard to get someone of his quality but unfortunately he just can't stay fit. The only players I really then care about are Dom and Richarlison. I think one at least goes in the summer but maybe selling Digne alleviates that need a bit and we can ask for what we want. But if this manager stays in place, then I worry both will go.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Any updates on the Kenwright ultimatum to Moshiri?

Keep spinning that narrative that never was said Dave, whilst the bobble is now apparently doing work for the Times with Paul Joyce. Whilst you sit on here like the rest of us questioning him. It’s laughable. He breaks the Everton notification of Leicester’s application to get the game off, Dominic Calvert-Lewin being out and called the Patterson deal from day 1, but because he didn’t tweet about Digne first, he gets lambasted.

 

[MikeH72]

Yeah this side of it is totally fine. I have no issue if we get a good fee for him. It's short-term pain for long-term gain, hopefully.

My issue with is the narrative he's been crap for 17 years or whatever, that he's 29 (he's 28 until he's 29) and the real problem I have with it is that we're letting a fallout with a manager who shouldn't be here dictate what happens, even if the outcome is actually probably good for the club (albeit, that fee we're paying for Mykolenko is a lot).

I wonder who the next player will be and when it is, whether the same fans will side with the manager again. I know you aren't doing, you're looking at it at selling a big earner at the right time and I'm with you on that. I'm not overly precious about any of our players. I'm gutted that Mina's injury record is so bad because if he could just stay fit we'd have a 27-year-old CB playing as well as most others in the league when he's fit. It's going to be hard to get someone of his quality but unfortunately he just can't stay fit. The only players I really then care about are Dom and Richarlison. I think one at least goes in the summer but maybe selling Digne alleviates that need a bit and we can ask for what we want. But if this manager stays in place, then I worry both will go.

Again, as much as we don’t like it, selling DCL in the summer is inevitably going to happen and is going to look fantastic on our books because we’ll be making a colossal profit on him. He’s our only hope of anywhere near such a profitable sale. It’s simply going to happen so we have to trust that whoever the manager is in the summer spends the money right on a young striker who is both ready to step into our first team immediately and has similar potential for a huge resale in the future. It’s just the way we have to do business for the foreseeable future and it’ll be the same after the stadium is built for about 5 years while we pay off the debts from that.

 

[BlueToff]

Conjecture that mate.

He could easily turn things around with a few good signings.

I repeat we've just finished 10th & 12th under one of the most decorated managers of all time.

This squad isn't very good and is overhyped by many.

We need 40 points from our last 60 on offer this season to match last season's points total. We shouldn't have finished 10th last year. We should have taken 2 simple home wins and finished in Europe. The fact that we didn't is on the squad and Ancelotti.

You can say the squad was overhyped and that's true, but 4 more points last season got us Europa Conf League and 6 more points got us Europa League.

So you can't have it both ways. We have Norwich, Villa, Leeds and Newcastle coming up and if we don't take at least 6 points from 12 on offer then we're in a relegation scrap, because we'll have lost two games to at least 1 of the teams below us.

I know the injuries hit us in October and look, that's incredibly unfortunate. But we had injuries, and lots of them, last year too. The only team in the league to have every single player injured at some stage in the season. Ancelotti adapted and his faults came to fruit when he couldn't get the team playing with any attacking semblance again come April when the players were fit and we had an 'easier' run.

Benitez didn't adapt. He didn't have Dom for three months but insisted on playing the same way you would with DCL. He didn't have Doucoure for 6 weeks (same as Ancelotti in March/April last season btw and Doucoure's injury was crippling for us then too) but didn't adapt and go 3 in midfield,instead keeping that insane 4411 shape with bloody Tom Davies or a half-fit Gbamin trying to fill in and do Doucoure's job.

And we're in very real danger of getting sucked in. Like I said, we need two wins, at least, I'd argue 3, from the next four games to be out of immediate danger I'd say. Well we've won one league game since the start of October now. 6 points from 36 on offer. It's disgraceful.

 

[kenada_blue]

We have to be smarter as a business. We lose £100m+ every year, that is not sustainable and can’t be allowed to continue, we have to start making money back somewhere. What’s the point keeping Digne around for another 3 years to help us finish 12th a few times and then losing him on a free? You may not like it but football is a business and we will not survive as a club if we’re haemorrhaging money left right and centre.

Of course. And I'm not saying that. Which is why we'll be selling Richy etc. We're selling to buy now. Moyes had to do it but he didn't sell Baines when he could, or Jags etc.

It's the justification of his age and the transfer is "right" to do... especially with the clueless kopite in charge.

There's no strategy in it unless Raffa is here long term.

 

[kenada_blue]

But it’s a fair point though. Digne is a great example of why you should buy players young, we’ve had 4 years out of him and are still going to sell him for a profit. We’re crippled as a business essentially from buying 28 year olds for massive money and releasing them on frees.

But that goes back to buying bad rather than the age.

 

[MikeH72]

But that goes back to buying bad rather than the age.

Age is still a factor. Look at the young players we bought that were never part of our first team, players like Vlasic, Lookman and even that Onyekuru. We still managed to make a marginal profit on them even though they barely ever played for us. Teams will pay money for potential, teams will never pay money for a 32 year old.