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Lukaku. Yes or no

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RhylBlue said:
For me, Lukaku is in that bracket of what I call B-tier strikers. If you look back at PL strikers of the past, I think I would compare him to the likes of Hasselbaink, Viduka and Phillips. They were all good PL strikers who reliably bagged, but were never elite. There's no doubt Chelsea massively overpaid for him. Just looks completely out of place and lost when he plays for them. If they flog him I don't think they will get anywhere near the £97m that they paid for him.
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Tuchel is not getting a tune out of any of their forwards aside from Mount and recently Ziyech who was 6th choice until he forced his way in. Tuchel is basically Marco Silva with better luck. One way to play which is a legitimate great way but there is no flexibility and they've bought players who need something else.
 
wandyr79 said:
It is a team sport, end of.

Yes, we can debate certain individuals but generally over the course of an entire season you need all players contributing regularly enough to the team effort. If you play the same 11 week in week out and one player is not turning up for a high number of games then you will not win anything. That is Lukaku, he will let the team down in this regard on a consistent basis and for that reason he is nowhere near the level of the top players.
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You've genuinely in the course of this post gone from it is a team sport to it is one person's fault the team isn't good. I mean that's fine if you really think he is the problem but I have a tough time looking at the Everton side or the United side he played in and blaming him. If you want to blame him now that is fine, I think the far bigger issue for Chelsea is expectations were too high to start this year because people projected their knockout success to carry over into the league season and that isn't how football works. They shouldn't have been expected to compete with City and they aren't.
 
TheBigIguana said:
You've genuinely in the course of this post gone from it is a team sport to it is one person's fault the team isn't good. I mean that's fine if you really think he is the problem but I have a tough time looking at the Everton side or the United side he played in and blaming him. If you want to blame him now that is fine, I think the far bigger issue for Chelsea is expectations were too high to start this year because people projected their knockout success to carry over into the league season and that isn't how football works. They shouldn't have been expected to compete with City and they aren't.
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Not sure I said that at all, what I said is if they are not turning up for the cause, in a high number of games. That one player could be different players in different games. To devalue a player because he is a team player in a team sport is just a mad way to look at it.

Nothing is black and white when it comes to these debates and the truth lies somewhere in the middle but it still stands that team players will be more respected than individuals who go missing and that is what Lukaku does far too often and it can break a side, and that is because it is a team effort. If it was a tug of war and one person wasn't pulling it would still be classed as a team sport where one person broke the team and therefor they lost.
 
TheBigIguana said:
I forgot about nostalgia and sincerely apologize
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Absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia. Genuinely, did you watch Fowler play? Take away the injuries, he was phenomenal at the start of his career.

He was a natural finisher and did it against everyone and anyone. It pains me to say it because I've been a big advocate of Lukaku and Fowler was/is a RS...

... but I'd choose prime Fowler every day. I think if you asked most people who've watched both would choose Fowler, be they blues, reds or whatever else.
 

wandyr79 said:
Not sure I said that at all, what I said is if they are not turning up for the cause, in a high number of games. That one player could be different players in different games. To devalue a player because he is a team player in a team sport is just a mad way to look at it.

Nothing is black and white when it comes to these debates and the truth lies somewhere in the middle but it still stands that team players will be more respected than individuals who go missing and that is what Lukaku does far too often and it can break a side, and that is because it is a team effort. If it was a tug of war and one person wasn't pulling it would still be classed as a team sport where one person broke the team and therefor they lost.
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My point was more that the individual should be evaluated outside of team success and failure. If they're not playing well and it is part of causing a team to fail sure that's worth mentioning, but saying Lukaku wasn't good at Everton because we won nothing is silly. I hope that makes sense.
 
PhilM said:
Absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia. Genuinely, did you watch Fowler play? Take away the injuries, he was phenomenal at the start of his career.

He was a natural finisher and did it against everyone and anyone. It pains me to say it because I've been a big advocate of Lukaku and Fowler was/is a RS...

... but I'd choose prime Fowler every day. I think if you asked most people who've watched both would choose Fowler, be they blues, reds or whatever else.
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Take away the injuries that happened and effected how good he was and he was better isn't an argument. If his peak was higher sure, great, I wasn't really looking at it that way as much as who was better for the whole of what they did.
 
TheBigIguana said:
Take away the injuries that happened and effected how good he was and he was better isn't an argument. If his peak was higher sure, great, I wasn't really looking at it that way as much as who was better for the whole of what they did.
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It clearly is. Ask people on here would they take a prime Fowler or a prime Lukaku and see how they choose, because we couldn't ask for Fowler vs Lukaku now.

Again though, did you ever watch Fowler play? Would you choose Lukaku or Lineker?
 
PhilM said:
It clearly is. Ask people on here would they take a prime Fowler or a prime Lukaku and see how they choose, because we couldn't ask for Fowler vs Lukaku now.

Again though, did you ever watch Fowler play? Would you choose Lukaku or Lineker?
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Lineker is a tier higher probably.

When talking about one career versus another you can't just send injuries aside imo. I wouldn't pick James over David Silva even though I think raw ability James was better.
 

MikelsGoat said:
No hunger left.

He got all the moves he wanted, he plays International football for a clown, I wouldnt take him back on a free.
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I think he probably has enough hunger to still play well. He definitely didn't have the amount needed to come in and nail down a place in a team not built for him. On one hand I think it was reasonable of him to think they'd maybe work to make him the centerpiece after spending 100m. On the other I don't know how he could ignore that Tuchel is a complete psycho and was never doing that.
 
TheBigIguana said:
I think he probably has enough hunger to still play well. He definitely didn't have the amount needed to come in and nail down a place in a team not built for him. On one hand I think it was reasonable of him to think they'd maybe work to make him the centerpiece after spending 100m. On the other I don't know how he could ignore that Tuchel is a complete psycho and was never doing that.
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How can you build a team around a player that has no intention of touching the football outside the penalty area??
 

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