2018/19 Marco Silva - New Poll Added

[Frang]

View attachment 52593

Transition... free year

Gets the season regardless of league position

 

[Saint Domingo]

View attachment 52593

But I thought Eddie Howe, Hughton and Benitez were all boss managers?

 

[EFC78]

I fear you're right.

I think the culture at the club will always trump the managerial changes...always outlast them and drag them down. That's not to excuse the utter devastation wrought by Koeman, but there defo is a miasma that seeps into the pores of Everton players and it affects all newcomers who arrive.

As I see it, it's adown to 2 things: One, a realisation amongst players that the club is, in reality, headed nowhere and happy to head nowhere, because the stadium fantasy is seen as the best way to get the club up to the next level rather than the football on the pitch, and 2, it's down to the number of ex-players we have who are coaches and the hangers on who are in thrall to them (they'll number in the scores): they will have their own ideas about who and what is suitable and who and what isn't in order to run this club...and they'll have contact with players at all levels of the club poisining them with their clueless ideas and petty mindedness - these are people that look after themselves not Everton.

As a minimum, if I was Brands I'd get shut of every ex-player on the coaching staff, and I'd make sure that the likes of Baines and Jagielka were immediately paid off.

This malaise for a generation isn't supernatural - it's down to people. We know who the people are who aren't helping. Just get them down the road. The stadium issue will still be there sucking the life out of our onfield ambition, but at least the personnel issue will be dealt with.

Agree with some of the mentality aspect but how is us attempting to get a better Stadium a bad thing?

There is nothing to prove that it is a fantasy either.

 

[ijjysmith]

But I thought Eddie Howe, Hughton and Benitez were all boss managers?

I've seen people say they'd rather have all 3 of them.

Baffling.

 

[BlueToff]

@Saint Domingo I agree to an extent too, but think @Lanolin has nailed it as well.

Both excellent posts.

I think you can obviously add that each manager has made mistakes as well - including Silva. His rotation has been pretty poor and whether that's because he doesn't trust the back up options (which based on their performances, I can't blame him really) he still needed to be a bit smarter.

He also seems to be chopping and changing the system too much. If he wants to stick with 3 at the back, that's fine. I think it can work away from home, but it means DCL starting up top and maybe have Bernard/Rich/Walcott (2 of the 3) behind him.

At home, for now, we have to have Rich central and we have to be find a way of getting the ball into the final third quicker than we do at the moment.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I fear you're right.

I think the culture at the club will always trump the managerial changes...always outlast them and drag them down. That's not to excuse the utter devastation wrought by Koeman, but there defo is a miasma that seeps into the pores of Everton players and it affects all newcomers who arrive.

As I see it, it's adown to 2 things: One, a realisation amongst players that the club is, in reality, headed nowhere and happy to head nowhere, because the stadium fantasy is seen as the best way to get the club up to the next level rather than the football on the pitch, and 2, it's down to the number of ex-players we have who are coaches and the hangers on who are in thrall to them: they will have their own ideas about who and what is suitable and who and what isn't in order to run this club...and they'll have contact with players at all levels of the club poisining them with their clueless ideas and petty mindedness - these are people that look after themselves not Everton.

As a minimum, if I was Brands I'd get shut of every ex-player on the coacjing staff, and I'd make sure that the likes of Baines and Jagielka were immediately paid off.

This malaise for a generation isn't supernatural - it's down to people. We know who the people are who aren't helping. Just get them down the road. The stadium issue will still be there sucking the life out of our onfield ambition, but at least the personnel issue will be dealt with.

I’ve never seen a degradation as quick as Martinez’s at the club. First season was a genuine fresh broom through, we had a clear style that was different to what had been before and most importantly in keeping with what Martinez had done at Wigan (formation flexibility, inside forwards, not scared to sub off big names). It was like he was bodyshopped in his second season (Lukaku and Barkley guaranteed 90 mins, rigid formations, predictable scheduled subs). Here we see him now dropping Naingollan for Belgium, pioneering a formation to get the best out of De Bruyne and Hazard and leading them to the word cup semi.

My only other thought on it is that players degrade in confidence so much that successive managers have defaulted to the only things the players seem comfortable with 4231 and sit deep.

It remains to be seen if this is a temporary dip under Silva or not but if it’s long term then it’s unbelievanly worrying. Martinez was not properly backed and Koeman wasted the backing he had on utter trash, that’s for certain and are contributory factors. Richarlison Digne Bernard Mina Zouma Gomes are not poor players, they’re good ones, with proven records. If they succumb to the same malaise then serious questions have to be asked. This is not a bottom half squad and if it ends up there then it’s criminal mismanagement on the football operations side.

This all sits with Brands now for me. He has to crate the conditions for new managers to prosper in because I don’t believe they exist currently. He needs to carefully assess Silva but simply chopping and changing managerneirhout a deeper root analysis will have no effect.

I’d be inclined to agree with you to sweep out any remnants of the last 5 or so years of under performance on the playing and coaching side then go out and attract the best we can in the market.

 

[Encoder]

I fear you're right.

I think the culture at the club will always trump the managerial changes...always outlast them and drag them down. That's not to excuse the utter devastation wrought by Koeman, but there defo is a miasma that seeps into the pores of Everton players and it affects all newcomers who arrive.

As I see it, it's adown to 2 things: One, a realisation amongst players that the club is, in reality, headed nowhere and happy to head nowhere, because the stadium fantasy is seen as the best way to get the club up to the next level rather than the football on the pitch, and 2, it's down to the number of ex-players we have who are coaches and the hangers on who are in thrall to them (they'll number in the scores): they will have their own ideas about who and what is suitable and who and what isn't in order to run this club...and they'll have contact with players at all levels of the club poisining them with their clueless ideas and petty mindedness - these are people that look after themselves not Everton.

As a minimum, if I was Brands I'd get shut of every ex-player on the coaching staff, and I'd make sure that the likes of Baines and Jagielka were immediately paid off.

This malaise for a generation isn't supernatural - it's down to people. We know who the people are who aren't helping. Just get them down the road. The stadium issue will still be there sucking the life out of our onfield ambition, but at least the personnel issue will be dealt with.

Yes x1,000,000. The loser boys club need firing out of a slingshot into the sun.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Agree with some of the mentality aspect but how is us attempting to get a better Stadium a bad thing?

There is nothing to prove that it is a fantasy either.

I think the point is it seems to be the thing that successive boards have hid behind. Their only competitive strategy is to build a new stadium. We’ve fallen miles behind in coaching, recruitment and academy player development because our answer to everything seems to be ‘we’ll compete with the top 6 once the stadium is done’

 

[BlueToff]

In quite a few seasons a team that looks comfortable coming to the end of the calendar years goes into free fall.We need some points on the board and quickly.

Pretty sure two years ago people were panicking as well. We finished 7th by about 11 points.

I'm not saying it's the same - because the main reason for that was we had Lukaku tbh - but we aren't getting into a relegation scrap.

I'm not getting the knives out for anyone, but Brands needs to be having a target this window. Regardless of his bumph in the Echo, we clearly need a striker. I understand if the quality isn't available we don't want to get another Tosun, so it is difficult, but surely at this stage a need for the striker is clearly our biggest need at the moment.

 

[Encoder]

What’s most worrying is that under 4 different managers the players have just regressed to the same horrible turgid style of football. Martinez started with split centrebacks, retention of the ball, playmakers on the flanks, switching to 352 if necessary, a commitment to playing on the deck out from the back. By the start of his second season we were a rigid 4231 panicking in possession, error strewn, going long all the time, terrible at set pieces.

Koeman - we started off strong at the back, tenacious in midfield and with a decent counterattacking style based around Lukaku. The midfield diamond of Schneiderlin at the base, Gueye and Davies snapping away and Barkley creating seemed to have us set for years. Barely a season later and we’re back to 4231, error strewn, hoofing it long, rubbish at set pieces.

Allardyce - initially brought some solidity, Rooney was deep, we were putting teams away at home quite comfortably such as West Ham, Huddersfield, Brighton, Leicester. Then we seemed to completely regress into the horrific mode described above of just shuffling around doing nothing on the pitch. Allardyce even tried switching formations and personnel and nothing could spark us out of it.

The exact same has happened to Silva. We were close to top of the prem for attacking stats at the start. We matched Chelsea and Liverpool on their own turf and had started to turn teams over at home. Now we’ve gone right back to crap Everton and it looks exactly the same as the versions under Martinez Koeman and Allardyce. Can’t defend, no passion, no semblance of how to attack, formation and personnel changes not making a difference, just complete lethargy everywhere you look.

There is something structurally wrong at Everton. Martinez got Belgium playing well thanks to bold selection choices and innovative formations. Koeman has turned the Netherlands around completely. He was also very good at Southampton with some of their fans thinking him better than Pochettino.

WTF is happening at Everton? We need a compete independent external review from top to bottom to flush out the rotten core at this club. I don’t know what it is, long term members of coaching staff, club culture, long term squad members, whatever it is someone at the club needs to find it and kill it. I could understand poor performance from different managers if it was different e.g we were free scoring under Martinez but let in too many because we played 442, whereas Allardyce didn’t score enough because he was too defensive for example, but instead all their problems are exactly the same. Some of these managers are diametrically opposes in terms of footballing philosophies yet they are churning out teams that look exactly the same. We’re in a bizzare position where a forward line of Richarlison Tosun Bernard is plying the exact same football as Lukaku Kone Naismith did, or Lennon DCL Rooney. It’s utterly ridiculous. If some of the previous managers hadn’t looked like they were going to take us down we could have just kept hold of them and probably ended up with exactly the same sort of team, an utterly crap one.

Great post, our problems are more underlying than simply 'this manager is crap, sack' 'This player is crap sell'.

 

[EFC78]

Richarlison Digne Bernard Mina Zouma Gomes are not poor players, they’re good ones, with proven records. If they succumb to the same malaise then serious questions have to be asked. This is not a bottom half squad and if it ends up there then it’s criminal mismanagement on the football operations side.

This kind of mentality lets the players off the hook far too easily for me. They are professionals, they have talent. Just because Leighton Baines and Phil Jagielka used to bend over at Anfield and Stamford Bridge should have no bearing on how those players listed above do.

It's about time our players actually showed some heart to go with their talent. Instead of making excuses and having the fans make excuses for them.

 

[bignev23]

A joke thread about wanting Mark Hughes was started and to my astonishment he actually has a better win % at Stoke 35.5 than Silva currently does so far at Everton 34.8%.

 

[BlueToff]

They were all sacked as a consequence of results not being up to the required standard. Our minimum standard is Europe, whatever way you try to spin it.

If Silva doesn’t produce the results to meet our minimum standard, he’ll be sacked.

Moshiri has already sacked managers with far better CVs than Silva.

But if we don't get Europe this season, Silva won't be sacked

 

[BlueToff]

A joke thread about wanting Mark Hughes was started and to my astonishment he actually has a better win % at Stoke 35.5 than Silva currently does so far at Everton 34.8%.

Yes, over six years...

 

[Simon Buttle]

Yes, over six years...

Yeah, but Mark bloody Hughes though!!