Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

So you agree they're in the top eight best sides in the world? So why would a quarter-final be a achievement then? That's where they should expect to be. It's not an achievement to meet expectations. If they got to the Semi-finals or beyond It would be a successful campaign, the quarters would be acceptable but not a success and anything less would be a failure.

Meeting your target is not a failure though is it?

If he gets them to the Quarters then it's job done. Not amazing but not a failure either

Failure would be crashing out earlier or getting to the Quarters and getting absolutely smacked by a decent side

I mean, if they get to the Quarters and then Colombia hand them their arses 4-0, yes that's a failure

But if they get to the Quarters and lose 1-0 to Italy, then he hasn't failed

 

[MikeH72]

Oh don't exaggerate.

It's really not that hard. I enjoy wins at the time, other than one or two exceptions I wont be waxing lyrical about them for years though. "Oh remember that season when we came 6th? that was brilliant!" Its not what memories are made of.

It's pretty much modern football for me. Without anything to show at the end of it its all pretty much worthless. Put it this way I would prefer 10 seasons of finishing 10th with a league cup win in there then ten seasons of finishing fifth with nothing won. Even coming close to winning something would be nice.

No one is going to be waxing lyrical about finishing 6th, and no one said that. What you said though, was that you don't think finishing 13th, 7th or even 2nd are any different. They clearly are, if football is only about winning then a team that's 2nd is a damn sight closer to being successful than one that is 13th.

Most fans would also take that. However under the clown we didn't win anything either, so we were finishing in progressively worse league positions every season, without the get out of jail card of trophies. We were only going backwards, and there's no way of dressing that up.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

No one is going to be waxing lyrical about finishing 6th, and no one said that. What you said though, was that you don't think finishing 13th, 7th or even 2nd are any different. They clearly are, if football is only about winning then a team that's 2nd is a damn sight closer to being successful than one that is 13th.

Most fans would also take that. However under the clown we didn't win anything either, so we were finishing in progressively worse league positions every season, without the get out of jail card of trophies. We were only going backwards, and there's no way of dressing that up.

The big worry about Martinez was that he showed no inclination that he was going to reverse the downward trend in the League, and even more worryingly it looked like he didn't care either. Style mattered more to him than League placing

In that scenario there was only one eventual outcome, and it was relegation, something that would be incredibly damaging to a club like ours. A side like Wigan could win a Cup and go down and it wouldn't be as big of an issue, just because they didn't have a history of being a top table club until recently and there was plenty of time for them to get back

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

What the Martinez fans would be loathe to admit as well is that Martinez essentially left Wigan high and dry

Yes, he won them a Cup but he left the minute they went down

He would have done the same here as well

You can talk about him "getting the club" all you want, and there's a nugget of truth to it, but if you offered him the chance to win another FA Cup and see Everton relegated, he would have taken it every day of the week. He would have happily seen us relegated so long as he could have buffed up his CV and got another job out of it

Had he taken us down, he wouldn't have stuck around to get us back up, no way

 

[MikeH72]

Meeting your target is not a failure though is it?

If he gets them to the Quarters then it's job done. Not amazing but not a failure either

Failure would be crashing out earlier or getting to the Quarters and getting absolutely smacked by a decent side

I mean, if they get to the Quarters and then Colombia hand them their arses 4-0, yes that's a failure

But if they get to the Quarters and lose 1-0 to Italy, then he hasn't failed

They are the number 1 ranked nation in the world and possibly will be going into that World Cup. I think the people of Belgium, as well as the Belgian FA, will be expecting better than quarter finals.

 

[Papa Shango]

No one is going to be waxing lyrical about finishing 6th, and no one said that. What you said though, was that you don't think finishing 13th, 7th or even 2nd are any different. They clearly are, if football is only about winning then a team that's 2nd is a damn sight closer to being successful than one that is 13th.

Most fans would also take that. However under the clown we didn't win anything either, so we were finishing in progressively worse league positions every season, without the get out of jail card of trophies. We were only going backwards, and there's no way of dressing that up.

Yeah I personally don't think it matters that much. I don't expect others to think that way and I don't care if they do or don't.

It's not just about winning but it is about the possibility of winning stuff. The hope of being involved in something, it keeps your season going. A team finishing second is not a damned sight closer to being successful if the 13th place team wins something...

I didn't mention Martinez specifically so I am not sure how I am dressing that up? None of the ones I mentioned came close to winning anything with us so i am chucking them all in the same useless pile.

Hopefully the next man up (Koeman) will change that. I want to compete, not merely exist.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

They are the number 1 ranked nation in the world and possibly will be going into that World Cup. I think the people of Belgium, as well as the Belgian FA, will be expecting better than quarter finals.

Then they're wrong

The rankings mean nothing

At the end of the day are they better than Germany, Spain, Italy, Colombia, Chile, Argentina or Brazil?

The answer is a resounding no

A very good team for sure, but not good enough to win the big one

They might beat one of those sides in a one off situation, but they'd need to beat at least 3 of them to win a World Cup (Unless they got an EXTREMELY kind draw), and that isn't happening

 

[Papa Shango]

They are the number 1 ranked nation in the world and possibly will be going into that World Cup. I think the people of Belgium, as well as the Belgian FA, will be expecting better than quarter finals.

Fifa rankings mean nothing, we all know that.

I would say QFs are the minimum required though.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Belgium's only hope to win something is if we have a World Cup like 2002 where a bunch of the best teams implode in the early stages and they can get to the Final playing the best of the rest like Brazil did

Brazil had one difficult team really in that World Cup, and it was England, outside of that they had a pretty easy run. I'm not saying they weren't a good team, but they were hardly tested either

Honestly, the best side in that whole World Cup was probably Argentina, and they went out in the group stage due to getting drawn in the Group of Death

If Belgium find themselves in a similar situation to Brazil in 2002, they might have a chance, but they'd need an incredible amount of luck

 

[MikeH72]

Yeah I personally don't think it matters that much. I don't expect others to think that way and I don't care if they do or don't.

It's not just about winning but it is about the possibility of winning stuff. The hope of being involved in something, it keeps your season going. A team finishing second is not a damned sight closer to being successful if the 13th place team wins something...

I didn't mention Martinez specifically so I am not sure how I am dressing that up? None of the ones I mentioned came close to winning anything with us so i am chucking them all in the same useless pile.

Hopefully the next man up (Koeman) will change that. I want to compete, not merely exist.

But how often do teams in 13th place also win things? Very rarely, the teams at the top end of the table are the ones that generally have the success. And we never looked like winning anything under Martinez even when we were in Cup semi finals, if people are honest with themselves. I'm happy with the progress we're making, to be battling for Europe after 2 seasons of being bottom half fodder tells me we're getting closer to potential success.

 

[MikeH72]

Then they're wrong

The rankings mean nothing

At the end of the day are they better than Germany, Spain, Italy, Colombia, Chile, Argentina or Brazil?

The answer is a resounding no

A very good team for sure, but not good enough to win the big one

They might beat one of those sides in a one off situation, but they'd need to beat at least 3 of them to win a World Cup (Unless they got an EXTREMELY kind draw), and that isn't happening

Their squad is easily better than those teams. Italy are absolutely pathetic these days, if they beat Belgium Martinez would be leathered out the door in a shot.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

But how often do teams in 13th place also win things? Very rarely, the teams at the top end of the table are the ones that generally have the success. And we never looked like winning anything under Martinez even when we were in Cup semi finals, if people are honest with themselves. I'm happy with the progress we're making, to be battling for Europe after 2 seasons of being bottom half fodder tells me we're getting closer to potential success.

Based merely on prize money, you're more successful finishing second in the Premier League than finishing 13th and winning the Milk Cup

Plus, there's Champions League as well

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Their squad is easily better than those teams. Italy are absolutely pathetic these days, if they beat Belgium Martinez would be leathered out the door in a shot.

Italy are a better team mate. Belgium might have more name players and better individuals, but Italy are absolutely the better team

They'll be one of the favourites in Russia, no doubt

And if Belgium draw Russia in 2018 I don't like their chances in front of a hostile home crowd to be honest

 

[MikeH72]

Italy are a better team mate. Belgium might have more name players and better individuals, but Italy are absolutely the better team

They'll be one of the favourites in Russia, no doubt

You cannot be serious Michael. Conte did an amazing job getting that shower to the quarter finals of the Euros, they'll be absolutely nowhere near that World Cup. Scraped a win against Macedonia in qualifying, I reckon they'll be out at the group stage in Russia.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

You cannot be serious Michael. Conte did an amazing job getting that shower to the quarter finals of the Euros, they'll be absolutely nowhere near that World Cup. Scraped a win against Macedonia in qualifying, I reckon they'll be out at the group stage in Russia.

Italy turn it on in tournaments

Belgium don't and haven't since 86

I bet Italy will destroy Belgium on the counter if they play them

All Italy care about in Qualifying is qualifying

They've been that way forever

Look at 98 where they scraped Qualification but then did well at the tournament and only went out on penalties to the eventual winners