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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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davek said:
Lol.

He lost 18 out of 31 games mate.

How on earth does that compare to a manager who lost 43 out of 143?

Laughing here at the forlorn attempt to drag the club's PL season points record holder down to the Smith/Walker level.

The bitterness must be blocking out the blood to the brain.

Come back when the Dutch lad breaks through the "Roberto 70+ point threshold".
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You did it. People hate Martinez more because of you. Some might appreciate with his first season but that was 5th. And your decision to turn an blind eye on his 2nd and 3rd season is a bit meh.

RM left Everton with a 38% Premier League win percentage, but over the past two seasons Everton have won a combined 21 league games (not included Unsy's game) - the same as the first season.
 
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Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
He wasn't worse than Mike Walker

Walker is our worst manager of the Premier League Era by a country mile

Martinez at least had one decent season before things went south

Anyone arguing that Walker was better than Martinez is insane
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In terms of how far backwards they took us, you can certainly make a case for Martinez. 5th to 13th is something special, we were crap before Walker and pretty much stayed crap for a while afterwards.
 
mikeh72 said:
you can certainly make a case for Martinez.
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That 5th placed finish doesn't excuse those two awful seasons, but it was more than Walker came even remotely close to

It's reaching to say the least to infer that Walker was better than Martinez

At the end of the day it's about the body of work as well as the position of the club in the League table

Finishing 5th, Signing Lukaku, blooding Barkley and getting us into the semi finals of the domestic cups were more than Walker ever did or had any hope of doing, and as Royle showed, that Dogs of War side were certainly capable of much more than what Walker achieved during his time in the role

As with Martinez, Walker's failing was down to his own tactical limitations and poor man management, which Royle proved by coming in, tightening things up at the back, getting Dunc firing and actually getting the players motivated again

Martinez smokes Walker like a kipper, so let's put that particular argument to bed
 
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Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
That 5th placed finish doesn't excuse those two awful seasons, but it was more than Walker came even remotely close to

It's reaching to say the least to infer that Walker was better than Martinez

At the end of the day it's about the body of work as well as the position of the club in the League table

Finishing 5th, Signing Lukaku, blooding Barkley and getting us into the semi finals of the domestic cups were more than Walker ever did or had any hope of doing, and as Royle showed, that Dogs of War side were certainly capable of much more than what Walker achieved during his time in the role

As with Martinez, Walker's failing was down to his own tactical limitations and poor man management, which Royle proved by coming in, tightening things up at the back, getting Dunc firing and actually getting the players motivated again

Martinez smokes Walker like a kipper, so let's put that particular argument to bed
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For me you judge managers on the impact they had at the club. Did Walker contribute to us being gash that season, of course he did. Not saying he's inherently a better manager than Martinez. But Martinez took over a solid top 6 team that was pushing for top 4, continued that for a season and then dragged us slowly but surely down to 13th playing some of the worst football I've ever seen. It's a tough one to call in terms of which manager actually dragged us down further from their starting points.
 
mikeh72 said:
For me you judge managers on the impact they had at the club. Did Walker contribute to us being gash that season, of course he did. Not saying he's inherently a better manager than Martinez. But Martinez took over a solid top 6 team that was pushing for top 4, continued that for a season and then dragged us slowly but surely down to 13th playing some of the worst football I've ever seen. It's a tough one to call in terms of which manager actually dragged us down further from their starting points.
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I don't think you're grading scale works to be honest mate

Koeman came in when we were a bottom half side. If he wins the title next season, but then leaves us when we're 17th, he'll have dropped further and sharper then Martinez or Walker ever did

However, he will have also won the League, so what means more? How high you can get the club or how low you take it?

Under your grading scale you could argue that this would make Koeman worse than Martinez, because he took a club from 1st to 17th, but we all know that rationally Koeman's legacy would be that he was our best manager of the PL Era at that stage because he would have brought home title number 10

You have to look at everything that happened in a managers reign. Martinez getting fifth whilst having us play some good togger puts him ahead of Walker, who had us in the bottom half playing dross from start to finish

Fair is fair at the end of the day. I consider Martinez's managerial run to be a failure, but a failure isn't as bad as a catastrophe, and that's the only way you could describe Walker's run. Literally the only "positive" memory of his reign was beating Wimbledon 3-2, he had nothing else to his name. Martinez had the Oviedo goal at Old Traffic, the Arsenal game at home, Wolfsburg away etc

It's not even close, Martinez > Walker

Sod it, Walker is in the running to be our worst manager ever, he was utter mince with no redeeming qualities
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
I don't think you're grading scale works to be honest mate

Koeman came in when we were a bottom half side. If he wins the title next season, but then leaves us when we're 17th, he'll have dropped further and sharper then Martinez or Walker ever did

However, he will have also won the League, so what means more? How high you can get the club or how low you take it?

Under your grading scale you could argue that this would make Koeman worse than Martinez, because he took a club from 1st to 17th, but we all know that rationally Koeman's legacy would be that he was our best manager of the PL Era at that stage because he would have brought home title number 10

You have to look at everything that happened in a managers reign. Martinez getting fifth whilst having us play some good togger puts him ahead of Walker, who had us in the bottom half playing dross from start to finish

Fair is fair at the end of the day. I consider Martinez's managerial run to be a failure, but a failure isn't as bad as a catastrophe, and that's the only way you could describe Walker's run. Literally the only "positive" memory of his reign was beating Wimbledon 3-2, he had nothing else to his name. Martinez had the Oviedo goal at Old Traffic, the Arsenal game at home, Wolfsburg away etc

It's not even close, Martinez > Walker

Sod it, Walker is in the running to be our worst manager ever, he was utter mince with no redeeming qualities
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That's a complicated way of looking at it, obviously if that happened it's an exceptional circumstance as he'd have been the first Everton manager to win a trophy in eons. Martinez however didn't do anything of significance. He finished 5th a season after we finished 6th, great stuff. That is not enough to make me reconsider how awful he was.

Agree about Walker, but the whole club was a shambles at that time, we had no money and a squad full of has-been journeymen when he took over. Not trying to make excuses for him, just considering his position in relation to Martinez'.
 

Lads: "Walker or Martinez" debate: that's the psychology you use on divvies.

Not going to work I'm afraid. Insulted by it frankly.

Martinez top of the pile in PL season's of merit. End of story. Better effort than HK, Big Joe or the Ginger no mark.


...go and ask the Dutch lad on 58 points how hard it is to get a season like that together. He for one will never achieve it. Too conservative by half.
 
mikeh72 said:
I thought he left after we stayed up on the final day against Wimbledon? Thankfully I was only 2 years old and unable to remember his tenure haha. Fair enough then, that's pretty atrocious.
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Ha that is a good enough reason!

Nah he stayed on the following season for about 10 games where we won one game (his last one against West Ham with a scruffy Gary Ablett goal) and looked totally doomed. Royle turns up and puts in Hinchcliffe and the dogs of war and history was made. Boss season that in the end.

The 0-2 Coventry City defeat at home is the worst I have ever seen Everton play. It's hard to put into words just how bad Walker was, not only did Everton take a battering from him (we were rubbish but comfortable mid table rubbish before he got here) but his own career suffered for it too as he never recovered from it.

Walter Smith was pretty rubbish too like but at least had a couple of decent patches.

I hate Mike Walker as I was caught on MOTD chanting there is only one Mike Walker in his first home league game against Swindon.
 
The ginger no mark finished 4th at a time when Chelsea were dominating with their new found wealth, Arsenal still had the invincibles squad, United had the world's greatest manager ever and the #trickyredmen™ were champions of Europe.

Martinez finished 5th on 72 points in a season so bad for the top teams that one of the greatest frauds in the history of football, Brendan Rodgers, came within a pube's width of winning the title.
 

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