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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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I mean, Moyes got a 4th place finish in 2005 and a Cup Final in 2009, but no one is calling him an elite manager with a straight face are they?

What you do in one season isn't what matters, it's what you do over the body of your work, and Martinez has a very poor body of work when it comes to top tier league campaigns

14.29% of his league campaigns in the top tier have been good
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Pretty similar Dave

Got Newcastle fifth didn't he and got a team in the relegation dog fight to the FA Cup Final

Under your criteria, he had as good a League season for Newcastle as Martinez did for us

They even played some nice togger along the way if I recall...

That's why you can't base it on one season (Which you probably aren't but thought I'd cover the bases ;) )
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You cant compare a manager who's won f.a. with one who has. That's a qualitative jump right there on that one issue.

Martinez has proven himself in the PL and in the domestic cups and now on the international stage.

No one can say he hasn't. They just look daft if they continue to peddle some ridiculous line about 'ok in the cups, poor in the league'.
 
davek said:
You cant compare a manager who's won f.a. with one who has. That's a qualitative jump right there on that one issue.

Martinez has proven himself in the PL and in the domestic cups and now on the international stage.

No one can say he hasn't. They just look daft if they continue to peddle some ridiculous line about 'ok in the cups, poor in the league'.
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But hang on, he didn't win the World Cup either but finished 3rd, which you rightly say is impressive

How is getting a side like Crystal Palace (No offence to Palace fans) to the FA Cup Final not impressive?

You don't have to actually win the cup to have a good cup run

If so, his cup runs with us wouldn't count because he went out in the semi finals, therefore you can't point to them as a positive from his reign. You have denied him his kudos

Pardew has matched Martinez in the league and also made the FA Cup Final. That's comparative returns Dave
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
He deserves a pat on the back for that

Might hurt due to the knife wounds left by Baines and Jags though...
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Not just those two, I fear.
Donachie.webp
Seamus, whose daring dashes into the opposition's box mysteriously dwindled during the 'maestro's' 2nd and 3rd seasons, is captured here with another conspirator, the newly returned Danny Donachie, who for some reason quit the club during Roberto's (!'m a qualified physio) reign.
 

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
But hang on, he didn't win the World Cup either but finished 3rd, which you rightly say is impressive

How is getting a side like Crystal Palace (No offence to Palace fans) to the FA Cup Final not impressive?

You don't have to actually win the cup to have a good cup run

If so, his cup runs with us wouldn't count because he went out in the semi finals
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Pardew did ok at Newcastle. But he's won nothing. He cant be placed in the same catefory as Martinez. It's like comparing Freddy and the Dreamers with Buffalo Springfield.
 
davek said:
Pardew did ok at Newcastle. But he's won nothing. He cant be placed in the same catefory as Martinez. It's like comparing Freddy and the Dreamers with Buffalo Springfield.
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You've basically denied Martinez any deserved kudos for his cup runs with us because he ultimately didn't win the cup in the end

I'm amazed you'd take those achievements away from him

Even I wouldn't go that far
 
BigMick said:
Not just those two, I fear.
View attachment 47986
Seamus, whose daring dashes into the opposition's box mysteriously dwindled during the 'maestro's' 2nd and 3rd seasons, is captured here with another conspirator, the newly returned Danny Donachie, who for some reason quit the club during Roberto's (!'m a qualified physio) reign.
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Baines looks more like Ichabod Crane with every passing year.
 

flibbyflob said:
How many did we win over the next 2 seasons though?

What was the football like in the last 2 seasons?

Where did we finish in those seasons?
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The answer is 23 league games in the next two seasons combined (the last of which was under Rhino and it's a safe bet we'd of lost that had Martinez still been here). Those wins included the worst ever home league win tally in the club's history during 15-16, with a disgraceful six and was only bettered by one the previous season with seven. Oh and the blatant lie that our away form was class even if our home form was crap? B.S. because we won less league games on the road then we did at Goodison in 14-15 and the same in 15-16. We finished 11th on both occasions out doing the brilliance of the managerial team that consisted of Koeman, Rhino and BFS. The football was painful to watch most weeks with endless passing around the back four that went nowhere. On the rare occasion we played the exciting football Martinez is credited with (they became less and less frequent as teams figured us out) we would often as not throw away results due to a combination of shambolic defending that would of embarrassed a team full of kids and managerial incompetence/arrogance/stupidity that would defy belief (see West Ham and Stoke for perfect, painful examples of both).
 
Rugby Toffee said:
If Martinez was given the time Moyes had , would we have seen a modicum of success?
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Depends on how you define success. He might of won us a cup at some point because as his career shows he is a good cup manager but it's also a safe bet that he'd of relegated us too. I know we're all desperate to see the club's trophy drought end but I'm not sure relegation is a price I'd be willing to pay for it.
 

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