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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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bluenorthwarrior said:
Stunning? He has taken arguably the best squad of international footballers and achieved a 3rd placed finish in WC. I would say a par performance at best (and I like bobby so no agenda here but come on, let's be realistic).
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I am being realistic. Maybe you think it's easy to go to a team (any team) and have them unbeaten for 25 games and then beat the likes of Brazil on the way to a WC SF? He has overseen Belgium's best ever period.

They were a good game by Lukaku away from playing in the WC final and in all likelihood winning it.

It's an utter joke that there are still some people doubting Martinez's credentials as a very very good coach.
 
davek said:
I am being realistic. Maybe you think it's easy to go to a team (any team) and have them unbeaten for 25 games and then beat the likes of Brazil on the way to a WC SF? He has overseen Belgium's best ever period.

They were a good game by Lukaku away from playing in the WC final and in all likelihood winning it.

It's an utter joke that there are still some people doubting Martinez's credentials as a very very good coach.
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What you said can be true and it doesn't change the fact that Martinez was a failure at Everton
 
TheBigIguana said:
What you said can be true and it doesn't change the fact that Martinez was a failure at Everton
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Failure?

Three seasons he was here:

First season - Best ever PL season for points and wins playing the best counter attacking football most have ever seen by ANY Everton team on a consistent basis
Second season - Last English club left in Europe after a memorable EL campaign
Third season - Two domestic cup campaigns that get us to SFs of both cups

If the next three seasons are marked by "failure" like that then I and many others will be happy.


Your idea of "success" would appear to be making 7th/8th every season. Great stuff. Inspiring.
 
davek said:
Failure?

Three seasons he was here:

First season - Best ever PL season for points and wins playing the best counter attacking football most have ever seen by ANY Everton team on a consistent basis
Second season - Last English club left in Europe after a memorable EL campaign
Third season - Two domestic cup campaigns that get us to SFs of both cups

If the next three seasons are marked by "failure" like that then I and many others will be happy.


Your idea of "success" would appear to be making 7th/8th every season. Great stuff. Inspiring.
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Catterick and Kendall would take issue with that statement. Are you comparing him to their sides. Did you even SEE the 60s or 80s teams? If you did then there is no hope for you ....no one remembers managers that won NOTHING.
 
davek said:
Failure?

Three seasons he was here:

First season - Best ever PL season for points and wins playing the best counter attacking football most have ever seen by ANY Everton team on a consistent basis
Second season - Last English club left in Europe after a memorable EL campaign
Third season - Two domestic cup campaigns that get us to SFs of both cups

If the next three seasons are marked by "failure" like that then I and many others will be happy.


Your idea of "success" would appear to be making 7th/8th every season. Great stuff. Inspiring.
Click to expand...
My idea of success for an Everton manager is 1 of 2 things:

The easy one is winning trophies. Not really much to discuss there as Martinez didn't.

The second is improving our standing in world football. What I mean by that is if a manager came in and finished 4th 5th 6th and say 5th again and made it clear that we were actually competing with the "Sky 6" I could consider it a success even if we didn't win anything. So again Martinez is a no.

I'd like to see Everton do more than lose semi finals or be the last club in Europe because we got knocked out on Thursday instead of Tuesday or Wednesday.
 

davek said:
I am being realistic. Maybe you think it's easy to go to a team (any team) and have them unbeaten for 25 games and then beat the likes of Brazil on the way to a WC SF? He has overseen Belgium's best ever period.

They were a good game by Lukaku away from playing in the WC final and in all likelihood winning it.

It's an utter joke that there are still some people doubting Martinez's credentials as a very very good coach.
Click to expand...

Stunning is the key word here - I in no way belittle a good campaign, but as stated it was about par according to the world rankings. Many coaches would have got Belgium to a semi, many wouldn't have such as his predecessor but stunning it is not.

As for your selective achievement quotes (league performance is the best view of consistent achievement - note year 2 and 3 omitted from your reckoning) during his time at everton Moyes achieved a higher PL finish, got deeper in domestic cup and just as far in Europe.

Now I prefer bobby all day long but the point is you are peddling a false narrative, or else you have to acknowledge Moyes as superior achiever by your own metrics.
 
bluenorthwarrior said:
Stunning is the key word here - I in no way belittle a good campaign, but as stated it was about par according to the world rankings. Many coaches would have got Belgium to a semi, many wouldn't have such as his predecessor but stunning it is not.

As for your selective achievement quotes (league performance is the best view of consistent achievement - note year 2 and 3 omitted from your reckoning) during his time at everton Moyes achieved a higher PL finish, got deeper in domestic cup and just as far in Europe.

Now I prefer bobby all day long but the point is you are peddling a false narrative, or else you have to acknowledge Moyes as superior achiever by your own metrics.
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Sorry mate, you've lost me. I'm peddling a false narrative?

I think you'll find that my narrative is that Martinez is a very good coach and that the dwindling band of doubters on that score are making a show of themselves by describing him as a poor manager.

That's my "narrative", and I'm 100% right.
 
deipnosophist said:
Bye mate...it was nice knowing you. Dave’s got you chasing him down very dark, endlessly deep tunnels...we won’t ever see you again.
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Nah. I have a very specific line of argument on this that he's yet to really answer and I don't have any desire to chase him to different areas so he either comes to me or it dies down.
 

davek said:
Sorry mate, you've lost me. I'm peddling a false narrative?

I think you'll find that my narrative is that Martinez is a very good coach and that the dwindling band of doubters on that score are making a show of themselves by describing him as a poor manager.

That's my "narrative", and I'm 100% right.
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You can't be "right" as it's just your opinion as to what a very good coach is and that it is entirely subjective.

For the record though, you're wrong...
 
TheBigIguana said:
My idea of success for an Everton manager is 1 of 2 things:

The easy one is winning trophies. Not really much to discuss there as Martinez didn't.

The second is improving our standing in world football. What I mean by that is if a manager came in and finished 4th 5th 6th and say 5th again and made it clear that we were actually competing with the "Sky 6" I could consider it a success even if we didn't win anything. So again Martinez is a no.

I'd like to see Everton do more than lose semi finals or be the last club in Europe because we got knocked out on Thursday instead of Tuesday or Wednesday.
Click to expand...

Always gives me a belly laugh when that one comes up I must admit. Last English club left in Europe because we played on a Thursday and got to play Young Boys Bern instead of the likes of Barcelona or Bayern like the other English teams. The glory days.
 

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