Martinez new Belgium head coach

[MikeH72]

Good god almighty.

 

[BigMick]

The thread we had on who was the inferior manager, Mike Walker or the Spanish Mike Walker, was high quality. Very illuminating. Opinion was split 50/50 as I recollect but tbf it would take the wisdom of Solomon to separate those two characters. Some thoughful analyses presented on a difficult question.

Must have missed that thread but, yeah, it's a close call as they're both rattling around at the bottom of the barrel.

The gargantuan weight of BFS is also down there for me, but Walker must be bottom 'cos I think it took the players just a few weeks to see through him, whereas it took about a year for them to see through Martinez. I'd put him just above Allardyce but below Billy Bingham, who had two decent seasons, including one where we should have won the league, before it all went pear shaped.

Coincidently, Bingham is another manager who went on to manage an international team, leading a much less talented squad of players than Belgium to relative success, now regarded as a 'golden era' for Northern Irish football.

 

[davek]

FIFA short-listed manager of the year 2018
Cup winner against Man City
Manager of Everton's record breaking PL season

Lay down your arms lads. The war is over. You will be treated well under the Geneva Convention.

 

[goodisonopheliac]

And clueless to boot. Lets face it, Southgate wrung more out of his players than Martinez did at the WC. Player for player.

Definitely. Southgate was working with a mainly young team, several of whom weren't from Big 6 sides, including Slabhead Maguire and all the goalies. Martinez has a world-class squad, most of whom play for Big 6 teams or foreign equivalents. England getting as far as we did was a miracle, I didn't expect us to get out of the first post-group round (our group was easier than last time, Belgium being the only real threat), let alone get to the semis AND win a penalty shoot-out.

I hadn't started supporting Everton in the Walker years, but I do remember us being really, really bad then. In my time as a blue I'd definitely rank Smith at the bottom, though Koeman and Allardyce come close.

 

[wandyr79]

FIFA short-listed manager of the year 2018
Cup winner against Man City
Manager of Everton's record breaking PL season

Lay down your arms lads. The war is over. You will be treated well under the Geneva Convention.

All very good but it does not mean that he has no faults and for me the biggest fault was this strong mentality that his way was right and it was the only way to play football.

OK, he adapted these players in his first season, there was a bit of a shock factor for other teams. He tried to make them even more tippy tappy in his second season and there was less of a shock factor for other teams. They had easy to use tactics to overcome the slow football that he liked to play.

I was still a fan actually up until the end of the second seasons, my thought was which was the real Martinez, the one that can adapt a tactic (like against Arsenal & Utd at home in his first season) or the one in the second who was stubborn despite it obviously being found out and not working.

It was partly down to the players at his disposal and partly down to him, to not accept any blame on his part at all borders on cultist.

 

[Blues Harp]

Ha ha....with us "winning without winning"" ; and we laugh at and criticize the rs for this....the 72 points trophy...just wow !!!

 

[goodisonopheliac]

Re not having a Plan B or refusing to change tactics, Watford fans said exactly the same about Quique Sanchez Flores in 2015-16. Reading Watford fans' comments on Reddit was like being on here, except QSF was more defensive-minded than Bob.

Did Martinez make any changes when players weren't working, besides FINALLY dropping Howard for Robles in his last season?

 

[BigMick]

FIFA short-listed manager of the year 2018
Cup winner against Man City
Manager of Everton's record breaking PL season

Lay down your arms lads. The war is over. You will be treated well under the Geneva Convention.

Billy Bingham:

1st season - Finished 7th after inheriting the shambles created by the ailing Catterick's last couple of seasons.
2nd season - Finished 4th.

Plus, as you mention a cup win for another team,

Northern Ireland:
British Home International Champions (for the 1st time ever outright) 1980
British Home International Champions 1984

Qualified for World Cup 1982 where they managed a miraculous win over Spain in Spain
Qualified for World Cup 1986

All that with a strike force of Gerry Armstrong and Billy Hamilton.

The Bottom of the Barrel:

Bingham
Martinez
Allardyce
Walker

Lay down your arms. The war is over. You will be treated well under the Geneva Convention.

 

[davek]

All very good but it does not mean that he has no faults and for me the biggest fault was this strong mentality that his way was right and it was the only way to play football.

OK, he adapted these players in his first season, there was a bit of a shock factor for other teams. He tried to make them even more tippy tappy in his second season and there was less of a shock factor for other teams. They had easy to use tactics to overcome the slow football that he liked to play.

I was still a fan actually up until the end of the second seasons, my thought was which was the real Martinez, the one that can adapt a tactic (like against Arsenal & Utd at home in his first season) or the one in the second who was stubborn despite it obviously being found out and not working.

It was partly down to the players at his disposal and partly down to him, to not accept any blame on his part at all borders on cultist.

I've never ever claimed he has no faults mate. I readily concede (and regularly) that he didn't know how to put a defence together.

I merely keep on battning away the numb nuts proposition that a man with his more than decent record is "a fraud" and "clueless". That type of appraisal makes those making the claims look like spanners....which never seems to stop them, tbf.

 

[davek]

Billy Bingham:

1st season - Finished 7th after inheriting the shambles created by the ailing Catterick's last couple of seasons.
2nd season - Finished 4th.

Plus, as you mention a cup win for another team,

Northern Ireland:
British Home International Champions (for the 1st time ever outright) 1980
British Home International Champions 1984

Qualified for World Cup 1982 where they managed a miraculous win over Spain in Spain
Qualified for World Cup 1986

All that with a strike force of Gerry Armstrong and Billy Hamilton.

The Bottom of the Barrel:

Bingham
Martinez
Allardyce
Walker

Lay down your arms. The war is over. You will be treated well under the Geneva Convention.

Bingham took a squad full of class players and couldn't do anything other than break it up and use Moores millions to piss up against the wall and achieving nothing. Basically he did what Moyes did at United over a longer period.

There is no comparison to be made with Martinez.

 

[BigMick]

Bingham took a squad full of class players and couldn't do anything other than break it up and use Moores millions to piss up against the wall and achieving nothing. Basically he did what Moyes did at United over a longer period.

There is no comparison to be made with Martinez.

No great desire to defend Billy but that's just nonsense.

I presume the 'squad full of class players' you refer to is the 1970 Championship winning team. West, Wright, Brown, Keith Newton, Labone, Whittle, Ball and Morrissey had all gone before he took over. Harvey was crippled and had to pack up soon after he left us, Royle was never the same after his back injury, which leaves John Hurst, Husband, and Howard Kendall - not exactly a 'squad of great players'. Husband, past his best, left quickly, Kendall got badly injured in his 1st season - I would have kept him but he left in the deal that brought Latchford here. Could perhaps have got another year out of Hurst

'Use moores millions to piss up against the wall" - by signing the likes of Latchford and Dobson? Clements was good for a couple of years, Rioch was good, McKenzie a fans' favourite. And Andy King? £35,000 from Luton - no-one had heard of him! Sooner them than Robles, Alcaraz, McCarthy, Gerry and Lukaku.

And if Moores had been prepared to fork out for Shilton's wages, as Bingham wanted, we would have won the league!

Surrender mate, you've put up a long and noble fight but it's time to end it.

 

[PITA]

No great desire to defend Billy but that's just nonsense.

I presume the 'squad full of class players' you refer to is the 1970 Championship winning team. West, Wright, Brown, Keith Newton, Labone, Whittle, Ball and Morrissey had all gone before he took over. Harvey was crippled and had to pack up soon after he left us, Royle was never the same after his back injury, which leaves John Hurst, Husband, and Howard Kendall - not exactly a 'squad of great players'. Husband, past his best, left quickly, Kendall got badly injured in his 1st season - I would have kept him but he left in the deal that brought Latchford here. Could perhaps have got another year out of Hurst

'Use moores millions to piss up against the wall" - by signing the likes of Latchford and Dobson? Clements was good for a couple of years, Rioch was good, McKenzie a fans' favourite. And Andy King? £35,000 from Luton - no-one had heard of him! Sooner them than Robles, Alcaraz, McCarthy, Gerry and Lukaku.

And if Moores had been prepared to fork out for Shilton's wages, as Bingham wanted, we would have won the league!

Surrender mate, you've put up a long and noble fight but it's time to end it.

As if DaveKnowitall will accept any of that.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Ha ha....with us "winning without winning"" ; and we laugh at and criticize the rs for this....the 72 points trophy...just wow !!!

Dave's argument about Martinez is the Everton equivalent of the RS going on about how great Rodgers is because he finished second and now wins Scottish League. Except I doubt any RS do that because it's ridiculous.

 

[davek]

No great desire to defend Billy but that's just nonsense.

I presume the 'squad full of class players' you refer to is the 1970 Championship winning team. West, Wright, Brown, Keith Newton, Labone, Whittle, Ball and Morrissey had all gone before he took over. Harvey was crippled and had to pack up soon after he left us, Royle was never the same after his back injury, which leaves John Hurst, Husband, and Howard Kendall - not exactly a 'squad of great players'. Husband, past his best, left quickly, Kendall got badly injured in his 1st season - I would have kept him but he left in the deal that brought Latchford here. Could perhaps have got another year out of Hurst

'Use moores millions to piss up against the wall" - by signing the likes of Latchford and Dobson? Clements was good for a couple of years, Rioch was good, McKenzie a fans' favourite. And Andy King? £35,000 from Luton - no-one had heard of him! Sooner them than Robles, Alcaraz, McCarthy, Gerry and Lukaku.

And if Moores had been prepared to fork out for Shilton's wages, as Bingham wanted, we would have won the league!

Surrender mate, you've put up a long and noble fight but it's time to end it.

It's one thing buying players, it's another thing making use of them. See Koeman, Ronald for further information....

Crack on continuing to deny Martinez is a good coach.

 

[BigMick]

It's one thing buying players, it's another thing making use of them. See Koeman, Ronald for further information....

Crack on continuing to deny Martinez is a good coach.

Good to see a further weakening in your stance...'the maestro' now reduced to merely a 'good coach'. Keep it up!