Martinez: The Reality

deipnosophist · April 21, 2015

royalblue66 said:
Always want the team to do well mate,but you and I ain't going to see eye to eye, so I will leave it there x

noun: modus vivendi; plural noun: modi vivendi

an arrangement or agreement allowing conflicting parties to coexist peacefully, either indefinitely or until a final settlement is reached.

Lowste · April 21, 2015

joey_macmo said:
Id say Accepting your club finishing 5th-9th every season and having a go at fans who want to see us win things is pretty sad, but hey thats probably just me.

Not having a go at fans who want to win things, I am in that category of wanting to win.

I am trying to say we sit in a certain group of teams, and we have to be realistic on how we try to improve.
The standard set last season is something we should aim for each year, but to get close to getting in the top 4 it takes a season were we get everything right and a fair few factors go our way.
Under RM we need to let him build the squad and build the academy, hopefully we get some good investment to add to this...we then may have a chance, but it isn't going to be overnight as some people are expecting

Timak · April 21, 2015

Figures for the last financial year have been released. We spend just under £70m on wages. Less than QPR, Newcastle and the same as Villa.

Tottenham spend £30m more than us. Liverpool spend £70m more than us. Manchester United spend £140m more than us. (not even mentioning Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal)

We will not be finishing top 4 until that changes regardless of who our manager is.

Elong · April 21, 2015

Paul Bernard said:
The reason i have been a little angry about this is simple, at the time of our poor run, teams around us were showing fight and grit to get results, martinez carried on with the same old drivel we all moaned about on here. Im always looking back to the Newcastle team that got relegated under shearers brief tenure, they had the same idea, big club, internationals in their team etc etc.... look were it got them ! I have never understood how a fan, especially @Elong who negged me for the comment, can sit there and say 'im not worried' yet expect each any every player (who by the way are mostly paid mercenaries) to actually give 100% to avoid relegation ?!

Even though myself and @davek publicly debated this on here, at least he agreed that there was some logic to my thoughts - but he disagreed, he has been proven right it seems. Agree to disagree etc etc......

I was worried as was many others because 2 wins in 15 with the same old tactics was a cause for concern, at that point only leicester and QPR seemed dead certs to go down, remembering that there was one more drop to fill, like you say mate, having the 'too good to go down' mentality is a dangerous one.

(sorry for the long winded reply)

I was a few pages behind in the thread because of timezones, so I just sent you a message to disagree with your stance, they're just little numbers, don't be upset by them

If you thought there wasn't 3 teams worse than us in the league this season then you need help pal.

USABlue · April 21, 2015

Timak said:
Figures for the last financial year have been released. We spend just under £70m on wages. Less than QPR, Newcastle and the same as Villa.

Tottenham spend £30m more than us. Liverpool spend £70m more than us. Manchester United spend £140m more than us. (not even mentioning Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal)

We will not be finishing top 4 until that changes regardless of who our manager is.

We won't ever be able to compete with United on wages, they're a global brand. It's a difficult situation unless we get a ridiculously wealthy owner. spurs are getting a new arena and have the advantage of being in london while the owners keep pouring money into liverpool. It's a fair argument that Kenwright should invest more personal money into the club but he's not worth nearly as much as these other owners

Lowste · April 21, 2015

The Equaliser said:
Or maybe. like me and many others, he wants us to be utterly boss next season but his gut instincts tell him that is not going to be the case.

This stuff keeps getting trotted out about people wanting us to underachieve so that they are proven right. With the exception of one or two individuals, it's utter bollocks.

Many fans now believe that Martinez is not the long-term answer to the manager's position at EFC. But that doesn't mean they won't support him in the meantime while he is in post. They will however criticise him when things go wrong, similar to any manager at any club, and should be able to do so without being accused of hounding him out.

If he surprises us and is successful from next season onwards, most of us will be glad to hold our hand up and say we were wrong, because it would mean that the team is doing well and we all want that.

We won't be on here apologizing for doubting him though, despite certain posters' best efforts to divide the fanbase.

NSNO.

I have criticised RM this season, at times this season there was no hiding place for him and some of his decisions have been baffling
I have no issue in constructive criticism, as I believe we have a right to opinions and hence why there are forums for us to discuss.
My point is there are certain people who will find any fault they can with him and this for me is not constructive, it just seems to boils down to a total dislike for the man.
the long term answer, you will only find that out by giving him a tenure to prove himself.
The problem being now the expectation on his head I feel will always be to much for him to be a success.

As for the long term answer, we could do what Spurs do and play manager roulette hoping to find the right man

Brennan · April 21, 2015

Under Martinez we're averaging 1.6 points per game in the league. Under Moyes we averaged 1.5 points per game in the league.

If you look at the last five seasons of Moyes' reign, which is arguably a fairer comparison, he averaged the same as Martinez has. 1.6 points per game.

We had an excellent season last year and have had a disappointing one this time around. The question is, if Martinez has achieved the same points per game as Moyes since taking over and isn't good enough for us, who is ?

Elong · April 21, 2015

Brennan said:
Under Martinez we're averaging 1.6 points per game in the league. Under Moyes we averaged 1.5 points per game in the league.

If you look at the last five seasons of Moyes' reign, which is arguably a fairer comparison, he averaged the same as Martinez has. 1.6 points per game.

We had an excellent season last year and have had a disappointing one this time around. The question is, if Martinez has achieved the same points per game as Moyes since taking over and isn't good enough for us, who is ?

We could have Alex Ferguson managing us and people would complain that we leave it too late to score winning goals.

ijjysmith · April 21, 2015

Brennan said:
Under Martinez we're averaging 1.6 points per game in the league. Under Moyes we averaged 1.5 points per game in the league.

If you look at the last five seasons of Moyes' reign, which is arguably a fairer comparison, he averaged the same as Martinez has. 1.6 points per game.

We had an excellent season last year and have had a disappointing one this time around. The question is, if Martinez has achieved the same points per game as Moyes since taking over and isn't good enough for us, who is ?

Vitor

Allezfan · April 21, 2015

Brennan said:
Under Martinez we're averaging 1.6 points per game in the league. Under Moyes we averaged 1.5 points per game in the league.

If you look at the last five seasons of Moyes' reign, which is arguably a fairer comparison, he averaged the same as Martinez has. 1.6 points per game.

We had an excellent season last year and have had a disappointing one this time around. The question is, if Martinez has achieved the same points per game as Moyes since taking over and isn't good enough for us, who is ?

Moyes is a terrible manager, though. It's no benchmark.

I'm pretty sure I could equal his points total.

micknick · April 21, 2015

I think its a big summer, get the right ones in the wrong ones out. In, out, in out shake it all about

micknick · April 21, 2015

Allezfan said:
Moyes is a terrible manager, though. It's no benchmark.

I'm pretty sure I could equal his points total.

Moyes wasnt a terrible manager though was he.

Allezfan · April 21, 2015

micknick said:
Moyes wasnt a terrible manager though was he.

Of course he isn't, honey.

Lowste · April 21, 2015

Brennan said:
Under Martinez we're averaging 1.6 points per game in the league. Under Moyes we averaged 1.5 points per game in the league.

If you look at the last five seasons of Moyes' reign, which is arguably a fairer comparison, he averaged the same as Martinez has. 1.6 points per game.

We had an excellent season last year and have had a disappointing one this time around. The question is, if Martinez has achieved the same points per game as Moyes since taking over and isn't good enough for us, who is ?

Good comparison.......