Martinez: The Reality

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Lowste said:
Ne

Never questioned how long you have been supporting Everton, just pointing out your agenda against RM has to blur your outlook and wanting the team to do well.

It has to, if you dislike somebody or something the obvious reaction is to want them or it to fail

Human nature
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Always want the team to do well mate,but you and I ain't going to see eye to eye, so I will leave it there x
 
Lowste said:
You just don't like him, and deep down you will want us to under achieve so you are proven right

Pretty sad way to support your Club
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Or maybe. like me and many others, he wants us to be utterly boss next season but his gut instincts tell him that is not going to be the case.

This stuff keeps getting trotted out about people wanting us to underachieve so that they are proven right. With the exception of one or two individuals, it's utter bollocks.

Many fans now believe that Martinez is not the long-term answer to the manager's position at EFC. But that doesn't mean they won't support him in the meantime while he is in post. They will however criticise him when things go wrong, similar to any manager at any club, and should be able to do so without being accused of hounding him out.

If he surprises us and is successful from next season onwards, most of us will be glad to hold our hand up and say we were wrong, because it would mean that the team is doing well and we all want that.

We won't be on here apologizing for doubting him though, despite certain posters' best efforts to divide the fanbase.

NSNO.
 
The Equaliser said:
They will however criticise him when things go wrong, similar to any manager at any club, and should be able to do so without being accused of hounding him out.
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There is actually one club where criticism of the manager is treated as heresy and leads to expulsion from the cult. Glad to say Blues will call it as it is about our managers unlike our weird neighbours.
 

Some blues will take any and every opportunity to bag the manager, often unjustifiably so.
Take the draw against Swansea, where Martinez was heavily bagged when Coleman had that brain explosion and thought he was keeper for moment and conceded that penalty.
Apparently it was Martinez's fault for not taking off Kone earlier.
I don't mind justified criticism of the manager and team, as long as it is within reason and constructive.
To have fans going off at him over that was utter lunacy.
 
Think loads are on the fence with him at the moment, after this season , he needs a good showing in the tranfer department and a decent start to next season, or come xmas the pressure will be on.
 
kenada_blue said:
I don't think we will TBF.

Putting this season into perspective, you can still see why he's still learning the trade at another level.

He went from a team that nothing major went wrong - signings spot on, limited injuries, football that was a breath of fresh air - to the complete opposite.

He's had to plough through the mire of double the amount of games, European football, and a mass of injuries.

Happened to Moyes. He was fresh to that side of the managerial game and it took its toll in his 2nd season. Its a different ball game - fitness, rotation, gameplans - to just playing the Premiership week in week out.

Remove the European games, the side became settled, players coming back, go on to win games.

Yes, we've all panicked. But I do think its more down to the manager learning the trade than him not being capable.
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I think a lot of people just wanted to see that he had the ability to change things and over the last few games he has done just that. I don't think that people can be blamed for questioning him when he was doing the same thing wrong over and over again but the last few games he has dropped certain players and our form has picked up.

Without the burden of the EL next season I suspect we will have another good season next year.
 
Lowste said:
I think he told this to BK who blurted it out, maybe it wasn't just a 'I will get you into the CL' comment.
Maybe it had structure to it, on the lines of how we can build and aim for a CL place
Martinez isn't one for quick and snappy one liners

You just don't like him, and deep down you will want us to under achieve so you are proven right

Pretty sad way to support your Club
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Id say Accepting your club finishing 5th-9th every season and having a go at fans who want to see us win things is pretty sad, but hey thats probably just me.
 
USABlue said:
I wouldn't say that mate. I think most who weren't worried just thought teams like Burnley, QPR, etc were too poor to get the points needed to worry us. Never was a case "we're too good to go down" for me, just couldn't see the teams below us doing much. We won 2 of 15 at one point and we're still in 14th-15th. We were terrible but the teams at the bottom we're even more so. Obviously it's not acceptable to rely on other teams to be gash but we've turned things around a bit and have 6 games to see if we can end the season strong.
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The reason i have been a little angry about this is simple, at the time of our poor run, teams around us were showing fight and grit to get results, martinez carried on with the same old drivel we all moaned about on here. Im always looking back to the Newcastle team that got relegated under shearers brief tenure, they had the same idea, big club, internationals in their team etc etc.... look were it got them ! I have never understood how a fan, especially @Elong who negged me for the comment, can sit there and say 'im not worried' yet expect each any every player (who by the way are mostly paid mercenaries) to actually give 100% to avoid relegation ?!

Even though myself and @davek publicly debated this on here, at least he agreed that there was some logic to my thoughts - but he disagreed, he has been proven right it seems. Agree to disagree etc etc......

I was worried as was many others because 2 wins in 15 with the same old tactics was a cause for concern, at that point only leicester and QPR seemed dead certs to go down, remembering that there was one more drop to fill, like you say mate, having the 'too good to go down' mentality is a dangerous one.

(sorry for the long winded reply)
 

Paul Bernard said:
The reason i have been a little angry about this is simple, at the time of our poor run, teams around us were showing fight and grit to get results, martinez carried on with the same old drivel we all moaned about on here. Im always looking back to the Newcastle team that got relegated under shearers brief tenure, they had the same idea, big club, internationals in their team etc etc.... look were it got them ! I have never understood how a fan, especially @Elong who negged me for the comment, can sit there and say 'im not worried' yet expect each any every player (who by the way are mostly paid mercenaries) to actually give 100% to avoid relegation ?!

Even though myself and @davek publicly debated this on here, at least he agreed that there was some logic to my thoughts - but he disagreed, he has been proven right it seems. Agree to disagree etc etc......

I was worried as was many others because 2 wins in 15 with the same old tactics was a cause for concern, at that point only leicester and QPR seemed dead certs to go down, remembering that there was one more drop to fill, like you say mate, having the 'too good to go down' mentality is a dangerous one.

(sorry for the long winded reply)
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I think I saw it as a farfetched possibility but not a reality, given the run in we have and the supposed quality we have in our squad, albeit what was and still is massively underperforming 'quality'. Pause for thought, touched with concern perhaps, but not worried for safety.
Would only have taken a few more games to change the equation, but where I stood I felt quite strongly we would have more than enough to survive, and comfortably so at that.

As to whether my position to back the manager into the next season through to at least December will again be backed up by results, who can tell the future. But I believe he's shown enough things in his tenure to hint at a brighter future.
Tough season yes, a perfect storm in many regards. Mistakes have been made that he will need to learn from. But I'm backing him to make the required changes to get us ticking like last season, bring in his preferred players in the summer and build towards European Qualification again.
 
Kiwi said:
I think I saw it as a farfetched possibility but not a reality, given the run in we have and the supposed quality we have in our squad, albeit what was and still is massively underperforming 'quality'. Pause for thought, touched with concern perhaps, but not worried for safety.
Would only have taken a few more games to change the equation, but where I stood I felt quite strongly we would have more than enough to survive, and comfortably so at that.

As to whether my position to back the manager into the next season through to at least December will again be backed up by results, who can tell the future. But I believe he's shown enough things in his tenure to hint at a brighter future.
Tough season yes, a perfect storm in many regards. Mistakes have been made that he will need to learn from. But I'm backing him to make the required changes to get us ticking like last season, bring in his preferred players in the summer and build towards European Qualification again.
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I think you may be right about next season, lets hope he does learn from his mistakes, i know in theory he has until christmas (from most fans P.O.V.) but i think the board must be ready to pull the trigger as soon as the results dictate it (performances should be taken into consideration, you can lose a game 1-0 but show signs of turn around etc). I think many of us here believe the board wont have the guts to get rid if needs be.
 
Kiwi said:
Some blues will take any and every opportunity to bag the manager, often unjustifiably so.
Take the draw against Swansea, where Martinez was heavily bagged when Coleman had that brain explosion and thought he was keeper for moment and conceded that penalty.
Apparently it was Martinez's fault for not taking off Kone earlier.
I don't mind justified criticism of the manager and team, as long as it is within reason and constructive.
To have fans going off at him over that was utter lunacy.
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Didn't Kone give the ball away?
 
Azza said:
Didn't Kone give the ball away?
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Possibly, I can't remember the passage of play off the top of my head. As it was, given that I've just watched the highlights which starts from them passing it out from the back out wide, winger takes it, tries to knock it past Coleman who gets ahead of him, goes down under a bit of contact and then has a mindfart, I wouldn't really say Kone has had a hugely significant impact on us conceeding the goal.
The defence has had time to get back behind the ball and really deals with it until Coleman's mindfart. If indeed he did lose it, he hasn't been the main cause of the goal been conceded. Unlike several other examples this season where we've lost the ball in silly positions, haven't been able to regain shape and been cut to pieces as a result.
No the criticism was for Martinez not taking off Kone earlier (despite all efforts to do this mind) because of the yellow card he was on, which apparently directly lead to us conceding the goal as it allowed more pressure onto us.
Wasn't just down to a silly mistake from Coleman, but a fundamental flaw in Martinez not wanting to take his beloved Kone off.

Or so I was told.
Stupid stuff
 
One of the things that makes me support RM is that relatively speaking he has done ok in the transfer market. No whopping mistakes and he managed to sign a Top Player , or one who is about to become one, in Lukaku. Looking at the disastrous purchases in millions at LFC, Newcastle, Sunderland and Spurs, RM's record is fine.

If he gets right this summer then there is no reason why we can't have a good 2015-16.
 

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