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Mason Greenwood

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chrismpw said:
I font doubt it... but "probably" is the damning word that destroys all the arguments here. The law and right does not and should not take "probably" into account. So much of this case is assumption by the public.

And to be clear to those many so far that are too dull to have understood my point ... I'm not saying what he is alleged to have done, (if the alleged evidence is shown to be admissible) is in any way ok!!
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You seemly know an awful lot about a case you know nothing about.
 
chrismpw said:
I have nothing to sell other than an opinion pointing out that we do not know all the facts. I'm not defending the blert - I barely know of him and care even less ... I just get jumpy when a crowd if lemmings start running and I question the reasons. Apparently this makes me all kinds of misogynist for not automatically condemning him.

If you know more than the CPS to make a case then please state it.
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What facts could you want to know that would possibly change people's opinion on this case?

Everybody has seen the video/read the transcript. That's damning evidence. It happened. That's a fact. Even if it only happened once, it still happened. It is not an acceptable stance to sit back and allow him to play professional football on a lucrative salary and be a role model to children around the world. He should not have a platform. I know you know this and you agree, but you keep talking about 'facts' that people may not know. People know enough to form the opinion that a crime was absolutely committed. You keep talking about women making things up about men. This is not an example of that so it makes no sense to be bringing that up here.
 

JimmyJeffers said:
Man United tying themselves in knots here. The sensible (and right) thing to do is distance themselves as far away from him as possible through whatever means they can.
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I can't believe they've allowed themselves to get in to this situation.

With the hugely increased popularity of the women's game they're being incredibly stupid. It's clear they're genuinely considering giving him a route back to the first team, otherwise they'd have bombed him out by now.
 
chrismpw said:
I simply know what I've read in this thread .... so I know as little as everybody else.

If you've read the whole thread, what is so hard to understand about that?
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So why don't you read more about the actual case so you are more informed.

Have you listened to the recording?
 
TheDude19 said:
What facts could you want to know that would possibly change people's opinion on this case?

Everybody has seen the video/read the transcript. That's damning evidence. It happened. That's a fact. Even if it only happened once, it still happened. It is not an acceptable stance to sit back and allow him to play professional football on a lucrative salary and be a role model to children around the world. He should not have a platform. I know you know this and you agree, but you keep talking about 'facts' that people may not know. People know enough to form the opinion that a crime was absolutely committed. You keep talking about women making things up about men. This is not an example of that so it makes no sense to be bringing that up here.
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I'm not saying the "evidence" is made up - I'm saying it is quite possible that the "evidence" that has been put out there for people to see and read on the Internet could be made up. The Internet is not a reliable source of news or evidence for we amateurs to be making strong conclusions from.

As the transcript etc has not been tested in a court of law all we can do is speculate. For those who haven't bothered reading the rest of this thread I will repeat AGAIN my opinion that IF the evidence is true then I agree he should have no place in a privileged position in football.

But that raises the question ... a baying mob are ready to stick pitchforks into him. Would they accept the death penalty for his alleged crime? I dobt think so. How long a custodial sentence would satisfy the massed need for revenge for this act? What would be proportionate? If everybody here were clear headedly responsible for dreaming up the punishment fir this young fool what would it be? A six year ban from football? A life sentence?

It's complicated because (if I understand correctly from what I've read in this thread) the clown and his alleged victim are back together with a young family. Forbidding him from pursuing a football career at this point will deprive his wife/girlfriend and young family of the vast riches of a pro footballer. Is it fair snd proportionate therefore that his punishment also punishes the rest of the family?

Maybe that's what people should now consider.
 
chrismpw said:
I'm not saying the "evidence" is made up - I'm saying it is quite possible that the "evidence" that has been put out there for people to see and read on the Internet could be made up. The Internet is not a reliable source of news or evidence for we amateurs to be making strong conclusions from.

As the transcript etc has not been tested in a court of law all we can do is speculate. For those who haven't bothered reading the rest of this thread I will repeat AGAIN my opinion that IF the evidence is true then I agree he should have no place in a privileged position in football.

But that raises the question ... a baying mob are ready to stick pitchforks into him. Would they accept the death penalty for his alleged crime? I dobt think so. How long a custodial sentence would satisfy the massed need for revenge for this act? What would be proportionate? If everybody here were clear headedly responsible for dreaming up the punishment fir this young fool what would it be? A six year ban from football? A life sentence?

It's complicated because (if I understand correctly from what I've read in this thread) the clown and his alleged victim are back together with a young family. Forbidding him from pursuing a football career at this point will deprive his wife/girlfriend and young family of the vast riches of a pro footballer. Is it fair snd proportionate therefore that his punishment also punishes the rest of the family?

Maybe that's what people should now consider.
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What is your opinion on the transcript? Do you think it happened based on listening to the recordings and seeing the evidence presented to you on the internet, with the source literally being the accuser's social media account?

The punishment should, at the very least, be that the lad doesn't represent one of the biggest football clubs in the world and be a role model for youth. That is without the evidence being tried in court.

Nothing about them being back together is relevant. They can both earn an honest living doing a normal job like the majority of us. It's their bed to lie in. You are saying that he should be allowed to play football, despite what he has done, because otherwise his partner and young family won't have vast riches available to them? What relevance does this have? It's a ridiculous argument and it doesn't complicate anything.

What does this case have to do with women "making things up" and how was that directive relevant to this case?
 
Baines' left foot said:
I can't believe they've allowed themselves to get in to this situation.

With the hugely increased popularity of the women's game they're being incredibly stupid. It's clear they're genuinely considering giving him a route back to the first team, otherwise they'd have bombed him out by now.
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Just reeks of plain greed. Imagine going to work with him.
 

chrismpw said:
I'm not saying the "evidence" is made up - I'm saying it is quite possible that the "evidence" that has been put out there for people to see and read on the Internet could be made up. The Internet is not a reliable source of news or evidence for we amateurs to be making strong conclusions from.

As the transcript etc has not been tested in a court of law all we can do is speculate. For those who haven't bothered reading the rest of this thread I will repeat AGAIN my opinion that IF the evidence is true then I agree he should have no place in a privileged position in football.

But that raises the question ... a baying mob are ready to stick pitchforks into him. Would they accept the death penalty for his alleged crime? I dobt think so. How long a custodial sentence would satisfy the massed need for revenge for this act? What would be proportionate? If everybody here were clear headedly responsible for dreaming up the punishment fir this young fool what would it be? A six year ban from football? A life sentence?

It's complicated because (if I understand correctly from what I've read in this thread) the clown and his alleged victim are back together with a young family. Forbidding him from pursuing a football career at this point will deprive his wife/girlfriend and young family of the vast riches of a pro footballer. Is it fair snd proportionate therefore that his punishment also punishes the rest of the family?

Maybe that's what people should now consider.
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It's hard to believe you're that obtuse to the difficulties in actually prosecuting sexual assault Chris.

1692352024360.webp

So the audio recording wouldn't be sufficient because it doesn't provide evidence that he did, rather than talked about, raping her. That's the burden of proof that "she" would have to provide, which a reasonable man might accept is pretty bloody hard to do. I suspect many look to the fact that she has gone to the effort to record this as saying it's far from the first time to feel confident that he is a nasty piece of work.

Similarly, it's pretty common for victims of abuse to stay with their abuser (https://ncadv.org/why-do-victims-stay), which as a teacher who presumably went through safeguarding training I'm staggered you aren't aware of. Yet you continue to take the side of the man. It's grim to read.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's hard to believe you're that obtuse to the difficulties in actually prosecuting sexual assault Chris.

View attachment 223293

So the audio recording wouldn't be sufficient because it doesn't provide evidence that he did, rather than talked about, raping her. That's the burden of proof that "she" would have to provide, which a reasonable man might accept is pretty bloody hard to do. I suspect many look to the fact that she has gone to the effort to record this as saying it's far from the first time to feel confident that he is a nasty piece of work.

Similarly, it's pretty common for victims of abuse to stay with their abuser (https://ncadv.org/why-do-victims-stay), which as a teacher who presumably went through safeguarding training I'm staggered you aren't aware of. Yet you continue to take the side of the man. It's grim to read.
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As the man, I tend to take his side. This is one where that's not tenable.

It really is that simple.
 

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