2017/18 Mason Holgate

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flibbyflob said:
For me the most telling thing about the whole incident is that Holgate put his hands on the ref and wasn't sent off for it. Firmino definitely said something out of order and the ref has bottled it by not taking action at the time.
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If he heard it and did nothing I agree with you, but the chances are he didn't hear it.
 
SteRobbo84 said:
The amount of times I've had to repeat this to idiot reds is incredible
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Agree completely on this. However the question I have to ask is what exactly was the referee doing in this situation? He definitely reports something to the fourth official.. but then that’s it? Surely if he heard Firmino say something explicitly racist it should have been a red card there and then with further punishment to come later? Or was he just reporting Holgate’s claim, without hearing it himself? The difference here between the Suarez and Terry cases is that the Ref is literally right there. He couldn’t get any closer. Perhaps the bulk of what Firmino said was in Portuguese (which seems to be the case) and the ref didn’t catch or understand the pertinent bits.

Unless he’s just totally bottled it of course. Overall such a garbage performance by him tonight.
 
tsubaki said:
If he heard it and did nothing I agree with you, but the chances are he didn't hear it.
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That close?

If he didn't hear it then Holgate should have been sent off, booked for the push and booked again for putting hands on the ref. Nothing happened so the ref has made an error.
 
tsubaki said:
Nope. Since the Macpherson enquiry the police have had a duty to investigate all racist incidents reported to them; tagging them in to a tweet doesn't count as "reporting" but phoning or emailing them does. You can do it here.
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The definition of what constitutes racism , is something along the lines of " any words or actions etc, that ANY person(s) deems to be racist ".

This is obviously massively subjective.
 

The fact that they've just had a media campaign over the abuse that Rhian Brewster has received - though without ever acknowledging how they acted over Suarez, or how their fanbase acted over Adeyemi - has put them in a bit of a spot here; if Firmino has said what Holgate appears to have claimed he has said then its hard to see how he can continue at the club. You can't be anti-racist, demand that your players be protected from racism, and then have one of your best players racially abuse others.[/QUOTE]
Also they will make the claim it's acceptable in South America to say these things as they did with Suarez. There are people from Eastern Europe in Britain where it's acceptable to use the N word, however they don't use it the term, same with most Spanish, Portuguese, Italians and South Americans in this country. My Russian mate got into trouble for using the N word at school and never used it again. Liverpool and their fans always find some idiotic way the defend the indefensible.
 
flibbyflob said:
For me the most telling thing about the whole incident is that Holgate put his hands on the ref and wasn't sent off for it. Firmino definitely said something out of order and the ref has bottled it by not taking action at the time.
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Do you think Kenny heard what was said? The problem for me is if the ref has played his role by reporting to the fourth official and not taking further action then it’ll be down to witnesses (unless the ref’s are mic’d up). A lot of reds around there at the time and not many blues. I’d be very surprised if anything comes of this.
 
Deckard2049 said:
Do you think Kenny heard what was said? The problem for me is if the ref has played his role by reporting to the fourth official and not taking further action then it’ll be down to witnesses (unless the ref’s are mic’d up). A lot of reds around there at the time and not many blues. I’d be very surprised if anything comes of this.
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The fact both managers have refused to say anything tells us they know something has gone on. I will be amazed if nothing happens.

The Free Firmino t-shirts will be on sale outside Klanfield next week.
 

flibbyflob said:
The fact both managers have refused to say anything tells us they know something has gone on. I will be amazed if nothing happens.

The Free Firmino t-shirts will be on sale outside Klanfield next week.
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Good point. Although I think given their conduct during the Suarez case the RS will be bending over backwards to appear cooperative and diligent in their efforts to support this investigation- they can’t afford another PR Disaster like last time.

I mention Kenny as a witness because the key thing in the Suarez case was that he admitted to using a certain word- then tried to argue (read blag/BS) his way through the investigation by saying that back in his hometown it was a term of endearment etc etc. Firmino will probably just play dumb this time and deny it all which will probably be successful given I have zero faith in that ref to step up. Just have to wait and see.
 
COYBL25 said:
The definition of what constitutes racism , is something along the lines of " any words or actions etc, that ANY person(s) deems to be racist ".

This is obviously massively subjective.
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Unfortunately you're right however this was different, the fact Holgate reacted out of character and touched the referee and then had to be held back by 3 Everton team mates tells you it was serious. Also Tom Davies ran on the pitch trying to defuse the situation, as if it was son of a bitch as the RS say. The referee obviously reported it to the 4th official, even the ultra pro RS BBC recognised it was probably racial. Nobody reacts that way to being called what the RS called him, nor do they try and get the attention of the referee. It's not like Holgate is a Cattermole figure always looking for a fight. The only other time I've seen players react like this was when Austria played Bosnia and Dragovic an Austrian player of Serbian heritage made some comment about Muslims to Besic and Dzeko heard it. I think he apologised afterwards, because he was just caught up in the moment so they didn't charge him. A black Arsenal mate of mine was the first one to tell mate about it saying he was surprised Firmino didn't get sent off.
 
JelavicBrate2 said:
Unfortunately you're right however this was different, the fact Holgate reacted out of character and touched the referee and then had to be held back by 3 Everton team mates tells you it was serious. Also Tom Davies ran on the pitch trying to defuse the situation, as if it was son of a bitch as the RS say. The referee obviously reported it to the 4th official, even the ultra pro RS BBC recognised it was probably racial. Nobody reacts that way to being called what the RS called him, nor do they try and get the attention of the referee. It's not like Holgate is a Cattermole figure always looking for a fight. The only other time I've seen players react like this was when Austria played Bosnia and Dragovic an Austrian player of Serbian heritage made some comment about Muslims to Besic and Dzeko heard it. I think he apologised afterwards, because he was just caught up in the moment so they didn't charge him. A black Arsenal mate of mine was the first one to tell mate about it saying he was surprised Firmino didn't get sent off.
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I'm not so sure. Seeing the replay, it looks to me all the Everton players around the two heard it ( and maybe Liverpool players but they will have no recollection of it naturally), but the referee motions to his earpiece and my lip reading skills have him saying "I couldn't hear anything" to which Holgate makes an annoyed response.

If so, nothing to see here let's all move on shall we...
 

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