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Messi on for Ronaldo'esq season?

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I agree our league is tougher than the rest of the world.

But the league still gets all their players from their leagues, and there has been more successes than failures with players from La Liga, Serie A etc.

The teams might not be better....but the players are IMO.
 
Our champions league representatives do perform better than those from La Liga. As a league however the fact that the same four teams come in the top four here year after year does suggest that any quality we do have is incredibly focused upon those four clubs.

I don't think it's fair to pick on Morientes and Forlan, both of whom have done very well internationally. Speaking of which, it was Spain that won the European Championships with a squad containing just 5 players performing overseas, 4 of whom are at the Spanish enclave across Stanley Park.

You mentioned the overall CL record. All three of the big leagues have had 11 wins in the competition. Serie A pips the other two however due to 14 losing finalists, compared to 9 from Spain and 5 from England. There's an all time CL league table that has Man Utd top, Real Madrid second and Barca third. The next English club is Arsenal in 7th.

I suspect that right now the Premier League is the best league in the world, with the finances we have here it certainly should be. But to discount La Liga as a tinpot competition is very wide of the mark.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Our champions league representatives do perform better than those from La Liga. As a league however the fact that the same four teams come in the top four here year after year does suggest that any quality we do have is incredibly focused upon those four clubs.
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Through your own admission, the top four here are of a higher standard than La Liga. So obviously, with a higher standard of top teams here, who are without doubt more consistent - its going to be more difficult in the Premiership for the top four to rotate. To then say on this basis that there is more depth in La Liga is a very poor argument.

Bruce Wayne said:
I don't think it's fair to pick on Morientes and Forlan, both of whom have done very well internationally. Speaking of which, it was Spain that won the European Championships with a squad containing just 5 players performing overseas, 4 of whom are at the Spanish enclave across Stanley Park.
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Both of whom have also excelled big time in La Liga, but were absolutely shocking here. Morientes admitting it being far more difficult to find space and to score in the Prem.

Bruce Wayne said:
You mentioned the overall CL record. All three of the big leagues have had 11 wins in the competition. Serie A pips the other two however due to 14 losing finalists, compared to 9 from Spain and 5 from England. There's an all time CL league table that has Man Utd top, Real Madrid second and Barca third. The next English club is Arsenal in 7th.
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Bruce, My argument about any potential record from Messi not being as credible as Ronaldo reflects now, not 15 years ago.

Bruce Wayne said:
I suspect that right now the Premier League is the best league in the world, with the finances we have here it certainly should be. But to discount La Liga as a tinpot competition is very wide of the mark.
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a. The money in the Premiership is FAR more widespread.
b.Its not as if La Liga are skint. Barca can rebuff £100m a year shirt sponsor and Real, well...
Real Madrid's seven-year deal with Mediapro, coming on stream from 2008-9, is worth about £110m each year.
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c. Who discounted La Liga as a tinpot competition? - It just isn't as good as the Premiership. The champions league for the past five years have consistently displayed that. The depth argument doesn't wash for me either, for reasons given above.
d. So you admit right now the Prem is the best league in the world. So back to the original point. Messi can not really emulate Ronaldos feat, can he?
 
Of course he can. You'll be saying next that Kaka isn't one of the best players in the world because he plays in the ageing Serie A.

Ignore their respective leagues if you want. Last year Ronaldo scored 8 from 11 in the CL. This year Messi has scored 5 from 5.

Of course, you could look at Ronaldos record against the rest of the top 4. These are slightly out of date as they were correct in March 2008, but they don't paint the guy in a great light:

vs Chelsea-played 9 goals 0
vs Liverpool-played 7 goals 0
vs Arsenal-played 10 goals 3
Total played 26 goals 3

I don't really want to get into a debate on the merits of Ronaldo as he's clearly a fantastic player, but to discount the achievements and talent of Messi simply because he doesn't play in this country does him a huge diservice.
 

I'm not discounting them, but as you have admitted - the Premiership is a stronger league so for me, achievements in a stronger league have greater merit.
 
The top 4 of the Premiership are better than the top 4/5 in La Liga, ofcourse, and that's the reason the Premiership comes out at number 1 on that link you posted (they say the English domination of the CL was the biggest reason for being #1).

Take away the top 4 from England and the top 4 from Spain (for arguments sake let's say Real, Barca, Sevilla and Valencia) and you'll find the rest of the La Liga teams are better than the rest of the Premiership (Fernando Torres, just one of many who disprove you're theory that most La Liga players flop over here, has commented on how he feels La Liga is more difficult because the small teams are very good technically and have more depth than the lesser English teams).

Depending on what you read you can make an argument for 1 league being better than the other but I don't see a discernable difference between the Premiership and La Liga other than that the PL is played in a quick, physical counter-attacking style and that La Liga is more slow and technical.

Messi has proved many a game he can handle the physical side of football when he's being kicked about by defenders and getting straight back up and laughing at them. I think he'd be great in the Premiership, probably better than Ronaldo in my opinion.
 
JAGIELKA said:
The top 4 of the Premiership are better than the top 4/5 in La Liga, ofcourse, and that's the reason the Premiership comes out at number 1 on that link you posted (they say the English domination of the CL was the biggest reason for being #1).

Take away the top 4 from England and the top 4 from Spain (for arguments sake let's say Real, Barca, Sevilla and Valencia) and you'll find the rest of the La Liga teams are better than the rest of the Premiership (Fernando Torres, just one of many who disprove you're theory that most La Liga players flop over here, has commented on how he feels La Liga is more difficult because the small teams are very good technically and have more depth than the lesser English teams).

Depending on what you read you can make an argument for 1 league being better than the other but I don't see a discernable difference between the Premiership and La Liga other than that the PL is played in a quick, physical counter-attacking style and that La Liga is more slow and technical.

Messi has proved many a game he can handle the physical side of football when he's being kicked about by defenders and getting straight back up and laughing at them. I think he'd be great in the Premiership, probably better than Ronaldo in my opinion.
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Agree with all of that, spot on.

Ronaldo wouldn't score 40 goals in a season in La Liga, I don't think so anyway. His game is all about pace and power, which is suited to the Prem. He's suited to the Prem because it is faster, defenders make more mistakes (because of the high tempo) and there's more space for him to exploit.

La Liga is slower and there are less space to exploit, defenders usually have time to recover and hold there position. In the frantic pace of the Premier League that isn’t possible. There’s a lack of control in play and players get pulled out of position. It’s end to end stuff, probably a big reason why everyone finds it exciting.

Messi plays in bursts, he slows down and speeds up. That’s what separates him from Ronaldo in my opinion. He’s proven that he can play both styles. If you slowed a game right down Ronaldo wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective. He’s still be a world class player but he wouldn’t be as effective as he is in England.

I used to think Ronaldo was better but having seen more and more of Messi he defiantly wins for me. La Liga is also the better League in my opinion, especially this season.
 
Both are pure class, I would love to Messi in the Prem. I think Messi is a better playmaker then Ronaldo who relies more on his individual personal skill, Messi can create for others more then Ronaldo.

Both are immense though! Its like comparing Beans and Toast!
 

GrandOldTeam said:
Aye, hard to make direct comparisions but comparing Champions League success would be a fair reflection?

Dont make me post the last 16 for the past 5/6 years and count them all up (y)

The more depth argument doesnt wash with me either. I would say its more a case of the bigger sides in La Liga lacking consistency.

Dont make me talk about the more likely failure of players who do very well in La Liga but are awful here. Quick examples, Morientes and Diego Forlan.

For me, the Prem wipes the floor with La Liga. Liverpool will show you that when they literally sweep aside Real Madrid.
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See :P
 
GrandOldTeam said:
See :P
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Wasn't really a difficult prediction to make after the way Real played in the first leg.

Especially when it's Liverpool's season on the line, with Torres and Gerrard back.

Still, I agree with what one of the guys said before, our top 4 is better than theirs, but the rest of their league is well ahead of ours.

You look at some of the dross in the premier league, Boro, Blackburn, Bolton, Newcastle, Stoke, Sunderland, Wigan, Hull, puts me to sleep just listing them.
 

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