Michael Keane or Conor Coady

[AndyC]

Under Sean Dyche, it has to be Michael Keane.
Knows how the manager wants him to play, and clearly has a good understanding with James Tarkowski.
And adds substantially more goal threat at corners, set pieces than Coady.

Coady had a great start but his performances have tailed off... grateful for his efforts but, with Godfrey and hopefully Branthwaite to return, can only see CC heading back to Wolves come the end of the season.

 

[andy4efc]

Sorry I don't think I made that very clear. Obviously mentality exists, what I mean is what people perceive to be mentality isn't always the case. Generally speaking teams win the league because they're very good at football. People who know they're very good at football, and consistently prove it by winning games, are more likely to retain the belief that they'll win even when they're losing, because they've done it before and they know they're better than the team they're playing. That same happens in reverse, if you're Everton and you've only won 14 games in 16 months, and only scored more than once 3 times all season, then when you go 1-0 down, you're not likely to have great confidence in your ability to turn it round. I think people often look at it entirely the wrong way round, seeing the results as being because of the mentality rather than the other way round. Our problem is that we only have about 2 players in the squad who I would trust to complete a basic pass 9 times out of 10 and we have nobody who I would back to score any given chance - they could have the greatest mentality known to man and it would make very little difference when they're so lacking in basic footballing ability.

I think Coady is a better leader and organiser than Keane, from the outside he seems a bigger personality and less prone to letting his head go down. I don't think he's necessarily any better as a player though, and so he's had next to no impact on results or the mentality of other players.

Oh Absolutely, and I share your belief in the 1/2 players and so forth. Nailed on. Completely agree with it mate.

Teams have that winning mentality because they have confidence and belief in what they are doing and when they get a set back they have faith in themselves and their teammates to get the job done anyway. Ofcourse they're very good at football, but they still need to be mentally strong and those who have that ability but not quite the headspace tend to fall away. For a struggling team to build up that mentality, which is a mix of attitude, confidence, belief in others,, you have the much harder task of getting those results first, and then remdining yourself that hold on, we have done that, we can do that, we're more than capable.

There is a dark cloud hanging over any team that are struggling to score, I feel once we get that game where it clicks and we bag 2/3 and have a comfortable win, we may just find some form. Perhaps DCL's presence will aid that. In an ideal world DCL comes back, scores a goal or two and suddenly everyones energised knowing there is a target to go for.

With regards to the bolded bit, I do agree, he's more of a leader for sure. I do think his character is what every team needs in their squad. We had an alright/decent start to the season considering the squad we have, but when results go sour, my view is that one character who can be mentally strong cant have any impact on those who aren't. I do think though if Keane had been playing in Lampards "system (being generous)" he would have fared much much worse than Coady. I do think how we set up now is beneficial to Keane and so naturally looks better. We have too many who either lack the confidence or a strong mind to back themselves (Iwobi is probably a fine example of this up until mid-way last season), or those who maybe just aren't up to the level or the task each game.

Shouldn't be forgotton as well that Tarkowski is 100% a leader as well, and perhaps Michael Keane next to him as more of a 'follower' works better.

 

[everton1953]

Don't disturb the defence by unnecessary changes. Leave Keane in.

 

[andy4efc]

Under Sean Dyche, it has to be Michael Keane.
Knows how the manager wants him to play, and clearly has a good understanding with James Tarkowski.
And adds substantially more goal threat at corners, set pieces than Coady.

Coady had a great start but his performances have tailed off... grateful for his efforts but, with Godfrey and hopefully Branthwaite to return, can only see CC heading back to Wolves come the end of the season.

Keane just makes sense as Dyche defends the box, doesnt let his CB's go wandering out wide to cover full backs.

STH at Burnley in work (also my boss) who's very objective on football said exactly that when we signed him. If he's played to his strengths he'll do very well but if he's exposed more like he expected he would be at Everton, he may find it difficult.

I have no major problem with Keane playing when we know we're defending the 18 yard box, rather than higher up the field.

 

[andy4efc]

Also - to throw another spanner in the works.

Mina not in the debate.

Obviously we think it's because we know it'll be a guaranteed use of a sub (not that it matters we never use them all anyway).

Wonder if they're treating him the way they're treating DCL, giving him proper time to get fit and overcome the constant problem.

If he was fit, even just for a 7-8 game. Does he partner Tarkowski?

 

[Tony’s Carp]

Also - to throw another spanner in the works.

Mina not in the debate.

Obviously we think it's because we know it'll be a guaranteed use of a sub (not that it matters we never use them all anyway).

Wonder if they're treating him the way they're treating Dominic Calvert-Lewin, giving him proper time to get fit and overcome the constant problem.

If he was fit, even just for a 7-8 game. Does he partner Tarkowski?

If Mina has dropped behind both Coady and Keane in Dyche's thoughts we may well have seen the last of him for Everton. He's certainly not getting a contract here, and I wonder if maybe he's mailing it in a bit now in training to protect against another injury that might scupper him getting a contract elsewhere. That or Dyche just doesn't see the physical fitness for him to play. Either way he's off, a player I really like but just can't be our problem any longer.

 

[terryefc]

Mina has to be ignored as he is not reliable - and I can't see him getting a new contract with us. He's been a disastrous signing to me.
Godfrey cannot head the ball - so he's never a Centre half. He is doing ok as LB though. Holgate can only play at RB - but isn't above Coleman or Patts. Most teams need at least 3 - if not 4 CB's - so Branthwaite should be welcomed back. Coady Tarks and Keane may still feature if we need a 3 with wingbacks. I'd buy him for £4m - but him and Tarks are not a good combo as they have no joint aerial domination. Fair to say Coady may only fit in a back 3. Keane and Tarks are my 2 CB's in a 442.

 

[tellmema]

Coady in the next game....Reckon he'll deal better with Chelsea's movement.

Please don't quote me.... Especially after the third goal.

 

[DavidH]

Coady. Keane's a bad 27p head.

 

[Geoff McNulty]

Keane all day long. Coady - offload this fraud ASAP.........

 

[The binman chronicles]

Shouldn't be forgotton as well that Tarkowski is 100% a leader as well, and perhaps Michael Keane next to him as more of a 'follower' works better.

This is probably true but those willing to throw Coady under the bus should be careful what they wish for. The Everton way would be that Tarks breaks a leg first game of next season after the window shuts and then we'll have to revert to a centre back duo of Keane and Holgate/Godfrey (I've made the assumption that Braithwaite goes on loan again here). This has been the stuff of nightmares around here for years whenever Mina was crocked - which was always.

I believe we could play Keane or a n other alongside a Tarkowski/Coady and it take the pressure off him as there is a leader by his side. Not taking the option on Coady could leave us massively short.

 

[God Benfrey]

Not gonna exaggerate and say Keane miles better but I really think Coady brings absolutely nothing other than shouting at people to do his job because he's scared to do anything.

 

[Lanolin]

This is probably true but those willing to throw Coady under the bus should be careful what they wish for. The Everton way would be that Tarks breaks a leg first game of next season after the window shuts and then we'll have to revert to a centre back duo of Keane and Holgate/Godfrey (I've made the assumption that Braithwaite goes on loan again here). This has been the stuff of nightmares around here for years whenever Mina was crocked - which was always.

I believe we could play Keane or a n other alongside a Tarkowski/Coady and it take the pressure off him as there is a leader by his side. Not taking the option on Coady could leave us massively short.

That's taking the pretty bizarre view that Coady is the only centre half in the entire world that we could possibly sign though? There is the fairly obvious alternative option of signing somebody better than both Keane and Coady.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Sorry I don't think I made that very clear. Obviously mentality exists, what I mean is what people perceive to be mentality isn't always the case. Generally speaking teams win the league because they're very good at football. People who know they're very good at football, and consistently prove it by winning games, are more likely to retain the belief that they'll win even when they're losing, because they've done it before and they know they're better than the team they're playing. That same happens in reverse, if you're Everton and you've only won 14 games in 16 months, and only scored more than once 3 times all season, then when you go 1-0 down, you're not likely to have great confidence in your ability to turn it round. I think people often look at it entirely the wrong way round, seeing the results as being because of the mentality rather than the other way round. Our problem is that we only have about 2 players in the squad who I would trust to complete a basic pass 9 times out of 10 and we have nobody who I would back to score any given chance - they could have the greatest mentality known to man and it would make very little difference when they're so lacking in basic footballing ability.

I think Coady is a better leader and organiser than Keane, from the outside he seems a bigger personality and less prone to letting his head go down. I don't think he's necessarily any better as a player though, and so he's had next to no impact on results or the mentality of other players.

Music to my ears.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Oh Absolutely, and I share your belief in the 1/2 players and so forth. Nailed on. Completely agree with it mate.

Teams have that winning mentality because they have confidence and belief in what they are doing and when they get a set back they have faith in themselves and their teammates to get the job done anyway. Ofcourse they're very good at football, but they still need to be mentally strong and those who have that ability but not quite the headspace tend to fall away. For a struggling team to build up that mentality, which is a mix of attitude, confidence, belief in others,, you have the much harder task of getting those results first, and then remdining yourself that hold on, we have done that, we can do that, we're more than capable.

There is a dark cloud hanging over any team that are struggling to score, I feel once we get that game where it clicks and we bag 2/3 and have a comfortable win, we may just find some form. Perhaps Dominic Calvert-Lewin's presence will aid that. In an ideal world Dominic Calvert-Lewin comes back, scores a goal or two and suddenly everyones energised knowing there is a target to go for.

With regards to the bolded bit, I do agree, he's more of a leader for sure. I do think his character is what every team needs in their squad. We had an alright/decent start to the season considering the squad we have, but when results go sour, my view is that one character who can be mentally strong cant have any impact on those who aren't. I do think though if Keane had been playing in Lampards "system (being generous)" he would have fared much much worse than Coady. I do think how we set up now is beneficial to Keane and so naturally looks better. We have too many who either lack the confidence or a strong mind to back themselves (Iwobi is probably a fine example of this up until mid-way last season), or those who maybe just aren't up to the level or the task each game.

Shouldn't be forgotton as well that Tarkowski is 100% a leader as well, and perhaps Michael Keane next to him as more of a 'follower' works better.

I think the name for this is resilience. Two important factors for this are: 1) Good relationships, 2) Setting realistic goals. It is not without reason that Nagelsmann said that coaching is 30 percent tactics and 70 percent social competence. It is also not without reason that Dyche has simplified the playing style, and in this way given the players an opportunity to succeed. As a wise man said, "Self-confidence is not something you have, but get".

The problem with Everton can perhaps be categorized under what Martin Seligman called learned helplessness, which states that when a person has experienced stressful situations repeatedly, they believe they cannot change or control the situation - or they stop altogether. After all, this is what happened with Lampard, completely unrealistic goals (style of play), and public hair dryers after they failed.