2019/20 Moise Kean

[Goat]

We have not challenged for anything for years and have been in

we haven’t won anything since the mid 90’s.
We were getting drawn into the lower reaches under Koeman. We are stabilised now and squad building from relatively poor situation, whilst hamstrung with fails players on big wages.
We will start moving in the right direction now,, but others are spending big as well.

And thats the top and bottom of it.

We didnt start at a level footing, all the top 6 were miles ahead of us, in terms of off-field sponsorship, wage bills, footing in modern football.

We have bridged the gap spending wise, our wage bill is now on a par with Spurs, the gap has been reduced massively since Moshiri came in, but were still coming from behind, in the last 3 years we have spent 52m on managers comp, over 50m on Agent fees, our wage bill has increased from 86m to 142m. But as you say, every club in the league now gets 100m+ from Sky alone.

City and Chelsea blew everybody away and established themselves, this was before FFP.
United and Liverpool have a massive worldwide fanbase.
Spurs got very lucky with Kane, but they also have a VERY astute "owner" in Levy.
Arsenal did a bit differently with Wenger

We cant copy any of these teams, maybe Arsenal with Brands, maybe Spurs if we do thinks a bit better off the field, but either way theres still a gap that we need to close and its not going to take 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Premier League - Transfer balance and five-year comparison

In dieser Statistik werden die Transferbilanzen der letzten fünf bzw. zehn Jahre der Vereine der Premier League miteinander verglichen.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

I wish I were making it up, but yes. Yes, we have.

Even if you expand it back over the last 10 years. We’ve still spent well more than the teams we’re supposedly competing with. We’ve spent almost 3 times what Spurs have over the last 10 years.

There’s only City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal that you could say have massively outspent us over the last 10 years - and only United and City have over the last 5 years really.

We’ve only spent 30m less than Liverpool across 10 years ffs. Just highlights the chronic mismanagement of this club from top to bottom.

I think it goes to show teams trying to catch the top 6 in recent years, how expensive it is.

On that list wolves have only spent slightly less and they have spent most of that time in the league below. Leicester have spent about 100 less. But have pulled in 140mil from 2 sales in the last 12months

Bournemouth 50 less, West Ham 60 less. Newcastle have spent a 100 less and will be fighting relegation. Brighton have spent over 200. And even villa have spent 160.

It suits your argument that it’s what’s happening in recent years, like I said just proves how expensive it is for the chasing clubs to catch up.

Do it between 2000 & 2005 or 2005 & 2010 and all the top 6 would have spent fortunes compared to Everton, yet we were competing for the top 6 places most seasons.

And come back in 5 years and the next 5 years will be different again. Proves nothing to me. I’m just glad we are spending that type money and I hope it continues.

 

[Bluestar]

And thats the top and bottom of it.

We didnt start at a level footing, all the top 6 were miles ahead of us, in terms of off-field sponsorship, wage bills, footing in modern football.

We have bridged the gap spending wise, our wage bill is now on a par with Spurs, the gap has been reduced massively since Moshiri came in, but were still coming from behind, in the last 3 years we have spent 52m on managers comp, over 50m on Agent fees, our wage bill has increased from 86m to 142m. But as you say, every club in the league now gets 100m+ from Sky alone.

City and Chelsea blew everybody away and established themselves, this was before FFP.
United and Liverpool have a massive worldwide fanbase.
Spurs got very lucky with Kane, but they also have a VERY astute "owner" in Levy.
Arsenal did a bit differently with Wenger

We cant copy any of these teams, maybe Arsenal with Brands, maybe Spurs if we do thinks a bit better off the field, but either way theres still a gap that we need to close and its not going to take 2 or 3 seasons.

Exactly.
No one else stands still either and the PL money means every team has aspirations.
Lots of really astute football people at all levels have come into the PL because of the opportunity. So called smaller clubs have some fabulous players, coaches and managers. Our team now could well be one of our best squads ever, but the competition is much harder.

 

[Goat]

Exactly.
No one else stands still either and the PL money means every team has aspirations.
Lots of really astute football people at all levels have come into the PL because of the opportunity. So called smaller clubs have some fabulous players, coaches and managers. Our team now could well be one of our best squads ever, but the competition is much harder.

List of owners of English football clubs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Makes me vomit.

 

[wba83]

Dortmund, Barca, Ajax, Sevilla, Arsenal, these aren’t top clubs?

Yes I would say all of them are top clubs

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Yes I would say all of them are top clubs

I agree. They all went after Kean.

 

[Tel001]

£27m for a 19 year old is a lot of money.

And Crouch was under horrific pressure, he speaks about it openly in his podcast.

He was going to the RS that have always had good strikers and he would have been under pressure to fill their shoes. Keane has to be better than DCL which isn’t exactly hard

 

[Tel001]

There are other possibilities for why it took so long though.

Some say Brands worked his magic and was convincing Juve NOT to include a buy-back on Kean. That’s possible.

It’s also possible that Kean was keeping his options open for as long as possible in the hope that a better offer may materialise.

In any case, I’m pleased we got it over the line.



So hang on, we splash out on a big signing to lead the line and we still expect DCL numbers from him?

Don’t get me wrong, we need to manage the pressure on MK right now but he’s secured a big move to Everton FC in the Premier League, he does need to step up.

At least 10 league goals. 15-20 all comps is the expectation for me and i’d say that’s reasonable.

Top strikers are hitting 2.5x those numbers all competitions and thats the level he aspires to, and the level we aspire to too! So absolutely we should be patient but we should also expect more than bang average - and essentially what we have right now anyway in DCL.

A better offer? You mean like arsenal who he turned down?

Brands is on good terms with his agent and would have known well in advance if the player wanted the move before chasing him.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

A better offer? You mean like arsenal who he turned down?.

'According to reports....'

'The Daily Mail suggests...'

Tabloids in 'fabricating transfer rumour during summer window' shocker.

 

[BlueToff]

And thats the top and bottom of it.

We didnt start at a level footing, all the top 6 were miles ahead of us, in terms of off-field sponsorship, wage bills, footing in modern football.

We have bridged the gap spending wise, our wage bill is now on a par with Spurs, the gap has been reduced massively since Moshiri came in, but were still coming from behind, in the last 3 years we have spent 52m on managers comp, over 50m on Agent fees, our wage bill has increased from 86m to 142m. But as you say, every club in the league now gets 100m+ from Sky alone.

City and Chelsea blew everybody away and established themselves, this was before FFP.
United and Liverpool have a massive worldwide fanbase.
Spurs got very lucky with Kane, but they also have a VERY astute "owner" in Levy.
Arsenal did a bit differently with Wenger

We cant copy any of these teams, maybe Arsenal with Brands, maybe Spurs if we do thinks a bit better off the field, but either way theres still a gap that we need to close and its not going to take 2 or 3 seasons.

And like you say, Spurs got hugely lucky with Kane.

It helps to sustain a project when you've got a 25-goal striker, especially one who has come through the academy and never seemed to have any intention of leaving.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

So what are you expecting this season?

Ignoring the money spent, do you think that we have a squad good enough to challenge the top 6?

Challenge the top six, yes.

That doesn't mean I expect us to finish 6th or higher, but we should be a lot closer to them than our fans seem to believe.

My minimum expectation is a comfortable 7th spot, hot on the heels of whoever in 6th. I think as a fanbase we need to be crystal clear that we won't accept any less.

If we finish higher than 7th then big thumbs up to Marco and the team. If we manage a good cup run alongside 7th spot, or maybe even some silverware, then i'll also be extremely satisfied with the season performance and the progress of the team.

But really, if we accept 8th again, after the resources that have been available the last few years, I get the feeling we'll just always tread water as a club. The best of the rest is all we'll aspire to and that's not good enough.

Off the field performance is totally different. I appreciate we have some catching up to do. But on the field, we've had the resources to mix it with the best of them. And all this talk of a 'long term' project is not good enough either. If we aren't playing European Football in 2020, we'll regress even further because there are players we have who demand European Football and the adventures and exposure it brings.

It sounds extreme, but if we're not playing Champions League Football in another 2-3 years (or at least looking like that's a strong possibility) then the likes of Richarlison, Digne and possibly Kean too (plus any other players we have with the ability to excel at that level) will be fluttering their eyelashes to every big club in Europe.

These players only have a finite time in their careers and if they have ambitions to win silverware, they might give our 'long term project' a small chunk of their career, a couple of years or so, but they aren't going to consider giving us their best years unless we're able to match their ambitions. Brands has alluded to that too with Kean and I'm OK with that, but if we can improve at the same rate as their ambitions, then there's no need for them to go anywhere.

 

[Lelouch]

Challenge the top six, yes.

That doesn't mean I expect us to finish 6th or higher, but we should be a lot closer to them than our fans seem to believe.

My minimum expectation is a comfortable 7th spot, hot on the heels of whoever in 6th. I think as a fanbase we need to be crystal clear that we won't accept any less.

If we finish higher than 7th then big thumbs up to Marco and the team. If we manage a good cup run alongside 7th spot, or maybe even some silverware, then i'll also be extremely satisfied with the season performance and the progress of the team.

But really, if we accept 8th again, after the resources that have been available the last few years, I get the feeling we'll just always tread water as a club. The best of the rest is all we'll aspire to and that's not good enough.

Off the field performance is totally different. I appreciate we have some catching up to do. But on the field, we've had the resources to mix it with the best of them. And all this talk of a 'long term' project is not good enough either. If we aren't playing European Football in 2020, we'll regress even further because there are players we have who demand European Football and the adventures and exposure it brings.

It sounds extreme, but if we're not playing Champions League Football in another 2-3 years (or at least looking like that's a strong possibility) then the likes of Richarlison, Digne and possibly Kean too (plus any other players we have with the ability to excel at that level) will be fluttering their eyelashes to every big club in Europe.

These players only have a finite time in their careers and if they have ambitions to win silverware, they might give our 'long term project' a small chunk of their career, a couple of years or so, but they aren't going to consider giving us their best years unless we're able to match their ambitions. Brands has alluded to that too with Kean and I'm OK with that, but if we can improve at the same rate as their ambitions, then there's no need for them to go anywhere.

Even if we get European football I still think these players would leave anyway not to make an excuse not to reach it as we should but I don't think it would make a difference, Everton as a football club are so behind everyone mentality wise that even with probably a top 6 squad on paper for me at least we still struggle to do the basics or just win a game of football with ease like Lincoln.

If Digne/Richarlison all want to leave for higher caliber teams then we sign hopefully other players just as good and rinse and repeat until we can force our way in to be a top side who is consistent in finishing high in the table and getting to semi/finals of cups.

It's no good getting into Europe one season and missing out on the next it needs to be happening consistently for teams and players to respect us which I don't know how long will take it depends on how the team and manager grows, I'm willing to give Silva some leeway for now, If we haven't gotten Europa by next season I'd have to start questioning if this is all Silva can push us too given the squad he has because it's probably the most talented squad player for player Everton have had in the last 10 years.

 

[Tel001]

'According to reports....'

'The Daily Mail suggests...'

Tabloids in 'fabricating transfer rumour during summer window' shocker.

So basically anyone one here that isn’t a friend or relative of Keane or works in the professional football industry is wrong. What proof do you have that nobody wanted? Do you know all the managers personally ?

 

[Deleted member 38674]

So basically anyone one here that isn’t a friend or relative of Keane or works in the professional football industry is wrong. What proof do you have that nobody wanted? Do you know all the managers personally ?

No that's not what I'm saying. It's a strawman argument. I'm just saying that using tabloid gossip as 'evidence' for an argument, doesn't hold up.

I've heard people on here suggest that the transfer took so long because of negotiations with Juventus, but that doesn't really make much sense because Juventus were quite happy to let him go. In fact, they wanted him, Dybala and Higuain gone to raise money for Lukaku. Conte was quite open about needing to raise funds for that purpose, that's my evidence. So negotiations with Juventus over the fee would have been a doddle because they were happy to let him go - which is the point that Souness was making - why would you let such an obvious young talent go if you were convinced he was going to make the grade?.

It's my >guess< that the negotiations took so long because of negotiations with the player who was waiting for a better offer from a club with European Football. There might have been several clubs in that bracket who may have suggested to Kean and his agent that they were interested, but weren't prepared to make a firm offer for whatever reason, so he was waiting for those to come to fruition. If an offer of that ilk was forthcoming, then I'd wager Kean would have gone elsewhere.

In the end, our offer was the only firm one on the table and, with time running out, we threatened to pull out if Moise didn't commit. Which is why he signed on the dotted line just days before the window shut. Juventus were happy to accept an offer all along, so if we accept that part of the story, then the only really hold up can have been Kean.

In the end, it all worked out in our favour, Kean wanted 1st team Football, Juve got their money and we got our man. All parties happy.

 

[catcherintherye]

And thats the top and bottom of it.

We didnt start at a level footing, all the top 6 were miles ahead of us, in terms of off-field sponsorship, wage bills, footing in modern football.

We have bridged the gap spending wise, our wage bill is now on a par with Spurs, the gap has been reduced massively since Moshiri came in, but were still coming from behind, in the last 3 years we have spent 52m on managers comp, over 50m on Agent fees, our wage bill has increased from 86m to 142m. But as you say, every club in the league now gets 100m+ from Sky alone.

City and Chelsea blew everybody away and established themselves, this was before FFP.
United and Liverpool have a massive worldwide fanbase.
Spurs got very lucky with Kane, but they also have a VERY astute "owner" in Levy.
Arsenal did a bit differently with Wenger

We cant copy any of these teams, maybe Arsenal with Brands, maybe Spurs if we do thinks a bit better off the field, but either way theres still a gap that we need to close and its not going to take 2 or 3 seasons.

I also think we have to accept we spent money very badly for the first 2 summers. It's fine pointing out how much we spent but it's almost void as we know it was spent badly. There was a very clear reset, in terms of boardroom, structure, coaching etc. We can linger on the mistakes which is fine but it's unfair to put them onto the new structure.

Since that summer we have been improving. We are improving from a base of getting under 50 points a season to one where people want us to be getting over 70. It's a big increase. We improved 6 points last season, in what many considered disappointing. If we do the same again this season and get into the 60's it's a start.

I think the approach Brands has is trying to be that of a European team. The recruitment is much younger (but not to the extreme of say a Leipzig, Monaco etc). There is good reason for that too, which is if we mess up as much as Monaco did last season we finish 20th in the league, which you can't have.

Other teams get better, but I do think from 3rd to 6th have stalled a little in their progress. The gap will be much closer and I do think the difference between 3rd to 10th will be closer now.