Morgan Schneiderlin

[Barnfred 55]

I think @davek point is a fair one here. As is often the case he has a lot of sensible things to say but his delivery style can sometimes be a little dogmatic which leads people to miss the wider point he's making.

I agree that we didn't need Schneiderlin. The re-emergence of McCarthy, change in formation to accommodate Barkley deeper, emergence of Davies and return from injury of Besic prove that. That being said you can see he is a very good defensive midfielder when he comes on. Reads the game well and switches play effectively. I also think Koeman had made his mind up we wanted him well before all of the above and has stuck to it. We will be bringing increasing numbers of younger and "value" signings from Walsh, so having some who Koeman can rely on to come in and perform over the next few weeks and months is important.

Where me and Dave disagree is around how much money we have available. I believe we are supremely well funded and if we want to spend 20 million on Schneiderlin it doesn't mean money won't be available in other areas. He has rightly identified Sigurdson. I think we will make a proper play for him in the summer, but understandably Swansea won't let him go. Where we disagree as well is the fee. In the current market place, where Sissoko and Wijnaldum go for 25 and 30 million respectively to get him for 22 is a deal that is too good to walk away from.

Some good points there mate. I would have prioritised a playmaker too given the quality we already had in CM, but if Schneids does improve on our starting XI, then I don't see how you can possibly call it a bad purchase. We still need a player with guile and I hope we can bring somebody in this window, although it's looking doubtful now. I'm not sure Sigurdson is the answer but, again, if it improves on what we have at the moment then I don 't see how you can criticise it.

For me. you have to judge our transfer activity against what's available and who is prepared to come here. As long as we continue to improve then that's a positive.

What I want to see is a long term plan that involves

1) Bringing in players in their prime who can improve the starting XI now
2) Bringing in younger players with excellent potential in the hope that potential is realised with us
3) Using the talent we have in our academy.

2 & 3 should help make up our squad and be introduced gradually from the bench or from the start in certain cup games. The pleasing thing for me is that this is exactly the long term plan we appear to be adopting.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

I think @davek point is a fair one here. As is often the case he has a lot of sensible things to say but his delivery style can sometimes be a little dogmatic which leads people to miss the wider point he's making.

I agree that we didn't need Schneiderlin. The re-emergence of McCarthy, change in formation to accommodate Barkley deeper, emergence of Davies and return from injury of Besic prove that. That being said you can see he is a very good defensive midfielder when he comes on. Reads the game well and switches play effectively. I also think Koeman had made his mind up we wanted him well before all of the above and has stuck to it. We will be bringing increasing numbers of younger and "value" signings from Walsh, so having some who Koeman can rely on to come in and perform over the next few weeks and months is important.

Where me and Dave disagree is around how much money we have available. I believe we are supremely well funded and if we want to spend 20 million on Schneiderlin it doesn't mean money won't be available in other areas. He has rightly identified Sigurdson. I think we will make a proper play for him in the summer, but understandably Swansea won't let him go. Where we disagree as well is the fee. In the current market place, where Sissoko and Wijnaldum go for 25 and 30 million respectively to get him for 22 is a deal that is too good to walk away from.

McCarthy is bang average. And needs to be shipped out. We won't get anywhere with that standard of player, around our 1st team.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Who is that?

Go back to my original post mate. I was putting to you a hypothetical situation that we had brought in a playmaker and back up striker

 

[davek]

Go back to my original post mate. I was putting to you a hypothetical situation that we had brought in a playmaker and back up striker

Oh.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

As @catcherintherye says, he switches play very well and that is the difference he would bring.

I have a fundamentally different view of our attack to you. Mirallas I dont consider anymore. He's just waiting to be sold and offers us nothing. We have Lukaku and Lookman with Barkley backing that effort up. It's not enough to have Lukaku and a youngster who may prove to have a very short run of form. It's essential we get an experienced quality attacker in. If the window closes without that happening I have to judge that getting another CM which adds one more string to our bow wont have been worth the use of resources this January.

Well, heck, if you just said that up front I don't think anyone would argue with your logic. I think he offers more at several positions up front than anyone outside of Gana offers up in DCM.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Cm wasn't needed for an updgrade? I honestly don't see how anyone can see otherwise. Gana is gone... mo is injured ... McCarthy looks like he wants out and Barry... although he looks ok ( I thought he was doing a good job...but was wrong as you can see the difference when he's not playing) is finished.

On top of that... if RK wanted snides , which he obviously did... you can't pick and choose when to sign players that you want... if they become available then you need to sign them or risk losing them.

In fairness, Gana is only "gone" for a month. McCarthy wants out because he's not getting a game. Davies has come through to be bosser than we probably expected, and we have Walsh waiting in the wings who I think is going to be even better. Mo is back in training and Barry, if used sensibly, is still a very good player. Remember he played in both our games against Man City and Palace and didn't appear to be a weak link.

I'm not against the Schneids signing. Far from it. If he improves our starting XI then it's excellent business. At some stage we had to replace/upgrade Barry anyway.

However, if we bought just one player this window I would have preferred it to have been a playmaker type. Whether that be a number 10 or a winger with guile I don't mind. Just somebody who is excellent from dead balls, has great vision and could help us break down teams who park the bus. We have literally nobody who can fill that role at the moment which is why it would be my priority.

It looks increasingly unlikely that we're going to bring in that type of player this window. The next four home games are all against teams who I expect to park the bus and my fear is that we drop points in what should be straightforward winnable games. Having the best group of defensive midfielders in the league isn't going to help in that scenario.

 

[bol-uk]

I think @davek point is a fair one here. As is often the case he has a lot of sensible things to say but his delivery style can sometimes be a little dogmatic which leads people to miss the wider point he's making.

I agree that we didn't need Schneiderlin. The re-emergence of McCarthy, change in formation to accommodate Barkley deeper, emergence of Davies and return from injury of Besic prove that. That being said you can see he is a very good defensive midfielder when he comes on. Reads the game well and switches play effectively. I also think Koeman had made his mind up we wanted him well before all of the above and has stuck to it. We will be bringing increasing numbers of younger and "value" signings from Walsh, so having some who Koeman can rely on to come in and perform over the next few weeks and months is important.

Where me and Dave disagree is around how much money we have available. I believe we are supremely well funded and if we want to spend 20 million on Schneiderlin it doesn't mean money won't be available in other areas. He has rightly identified Sigurdson. I think we will make a proper play for him in the summer, but understandably Swansea won't let him go. Where we disagree as well is the fee. In the current market place, where Sissoko and Wijnaldum go for 25 and 30 million respectively to get him for 22 is a deal that is too good to walk away from.

But we DID need Schneiderlin. At the initial time of enquiry, we had Gueye and Barry available. Barry is not consistent, Mccarthy was and is often injured and inconsistent and Besic was very injured and inconsistent.

Why do people keep trying to say we did not need Schneids?

He is also considered an improvement on a fit Barry, Mccarthy and Besic.

Saying we do not need him is like saying we do not need Van Dyke cos we have Jags, Williams and Mori.

We always need better, younger fitter players.

 

[bol-uk]

In fairness, Gana is only "gone" for a month. McCarthy wants out because he's not getting a game. Davies has come through to be bosser than we probably expected, and we have Walsh waiting in the wings who I think is going to be even better. Mo is back in training and Barry, if used sensibly, is still a very good player. Remember he played in both our games against Man City and Palace and didn't appear to be a weak link.

I'm not against the Schneids signing. Far from it. If he improves our starting XI then it's excellent business. At some stage we had to replace/upgrade Barry anyway.

However, if we bought just one player this window I would have preferred it to have been a playmaker type. Whether that be a number 10 or a winger with guile I don't mind. Just somebody who is excellent from dead balls, has great vision and could help us break down teams who park the bus. We have literally nobody who can fill that role at the moment which is why it would be my priority.

It looks increasingly unlikely that we're going to bring in that type of player this window. The next four home games are all against teams who I expect to park the bus and my fear is that we drop points in what should be straightforward winnable games. Having the best group of defensive midfielders in the league isn't going to help in that scenario.

So, if we sign such a player you would then be happy with Schneids signing?!

 

[4737carlin]

But we DID need Schneiderlin. At the initial time of enquiry, we had Gueye and Barry available. Barry is not consistent, Mccarthy was and is often injured and inconsistent and Besic was very injured and inconsistent.

Why do people keep trying to say we did not need Schneids?

He is also considered an improvement on a fit Barry, Mccarthy and Besic.

Saying we do not need him is like saying we do not need Van Dyke cos we have Jags, Williams and Mori.

We always need better, younger fitter players.

I think people might say we dont need need him because they dont fully understand what he can offer the side.

Of course we needed him, we have to make the squad better, we have money to spend but as the summer window showed there might be players we want that we cant attract, but when we do have the chance to get better players that will make the squad better we have to follow them up.

Put it this way, a lot of United fans were very disapointed they sold him, if they think he is good enough to be a United player but dosent fit into the way Jose wants to play that dosent make him a reject like Gibson was, just the wrong player for the system, but should be the right player for ours.

Dont forget Barkley cant defend, at times he dosent even try, if Morgan can do it for him and let Barkley just worry about the attack it will be a great pick up for a decent price.

 

[rochdaleblue]

McCarthy is bang average. And needs to be shipped out. We won't get anywhere with that standard of player, around our 1st team.

To compete for the top 4 we need better quality in midfield than Barry or McCarthy. Schnerderlin offers that.

 

[collymcd]

McCarthy is bang average. And needs to be shipped out. We won't get anywhere with that standard of player, around our 1st team.

Agree with you that he's more or less average and shouldn't be considered a first teamer.

I really don't think we should be getting rid of him though. We need solid experienced squad players, especially when we will be competing on all fronts in cups, league and Europe in the coming seasons.

Gana, Schniederlin, Davies are the future. McCarthy is an excellent deputy. The problem I imagine is that he will not be happy with a reduced role and good on him for that attitude.

 

[tonka1878]

I wholeheartedly agree with Everything @davek says.*



















I know it's mostly bollocks but if we all just pretend maybe he'll give it a rest for 5 minutes!?

 

[Warlordperforming]

Mediocre signing in a position we are already strong in. Wouldn't be bothered if we looked like we had plans to get rid of Besic Gibson and barry
but two of the 3 have got new contracts.

Would rather our limited money spent on a forward but looks like the people making our transfers are clueless.

In the summer we had few mediocre wingers so we wasted another 25m on one who doesn't score

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Agree with you that he's more or less average and shouldn't be considered a first teamer.

I really don't think we should be getting rid of him though. We need solid experienced squad players, especially when we will be competing on all fronts in cups, league and Europe in the coming seasons.

Gana, Schniederlin, Davies are the future. McCarthy is an excellent deputy. The problem I imagine is that he will not be happy with a reduced role and good on him for that attitude.

Or you could say, he's been a regular under no pressure for 3 yrs. The minute he loses his place he wants to jump ship. So maybe no such a great attitude.

Would rather give a squad place to Liam Walsh next season

 

[ijjysmith]

Mediocre signing in a position we are already strong in. Wouldn't be bothered if we looked like we had plans to get rid of Besic Gibson and barry
but two of the 3 have got new contracts.

Would rather our limited money spent on a forward but looks like the people making our transfers are clueless.

In the summer we had few mediocre wingers so we wasted another 25m on one who doesn't score

Mate, get off.