Moyes linked with Villa and Spurs

[Matt Damon]

Matt on a forum now I doubt very much people are going to start going in to , too many facts about finance that aren't out in the public , but since Kenwright has been in charge since the Johnson era I often ask myself as a fan , to name the positive aspects and the negative aspects he has brought under his ownership so here goes if iam wrong or leave something out maybe you or anyone else can refresh my memory ,

The list is endless iam sure there's a hell of a lot more but to me he's got to be the single biggest embarrassment of Everton football club IMO

That may indeed be your view. Unlike Davek I don't think you're not a real Evertonian for having that view either....

I actually agree on the infrastructure bit. Us having 5000 seats less than Anfield over 10 years has cost us upwards £100million !


However I can say that it could be worse, we could have Lerner and owe him £140million and be screwed.

The difference: Everton can get rid of Kenwright. Villa can't now get rid of Lerner.


Oh and the changing face of football's working in OUR favour btw.

 

[manxtoffee]

You're still unable to grasp the nettle and acknowledge the club's alarming rate of decline. There'll always be another Blackburn or Portsmouth for you to snigger at and that'll be enough. Just as long as the 'company' functions above administration but win nothing - that'll do you.

I dont even regard you people as Evertonians - you and the others on here who are happy with managed decline. You're just wannabe accountants satisfied with staying in business. Real Evertonians hunger for success and dont think of the club's skulking around with the also rans of mid-table as anything other than contemptible.

Lol Davek, How old are you mate? Seriously, if you jog your memory back.. we've been in decline since the very late eighties, that's over TWO decades Mate! Which funnily enough was waay before Kenwright got in and before you try to insult me along with others any further I would just like to remind you I stood in the Gwladys Street end to see our last championship winning side, that's how I long I've been an Evertonian. I'm disappointed in you Davek, I always respected your views and thought you were above hurling the ultimate insult.

Feck it, I have had enough..

 

[davek]

I think I may have struck a raw nerve with the trainee accountants.

Lol!

 

[Matt Damon]

I think I may have struck a raw nerve with the trainee accountants.

Lol!

No mate. You've personally made me laugh. I've added that to the vaults of "Everton are going into adminstration", "Lerner In!" etc etc etc

If I said Villa were boss and were going to dominate the league for the next ten year (which is clearly wrong) would that make me less of a REAL EVERTONIAN then? Or just a liar?

And would it make me less of a REAL EVERTONIAN acknowledging the relative difference in Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle etc to Everton too?



I think you can see, one moment of you spitting that dummy out and the toys out the pram shows precisely your points in this debate.

You're either with us or against us Davek, is what you've always stood for. But you've failed to grasp that you're on an island in the middle of nowhere with that one just as you've always been.

 

[sirblue57]

i have stood on the terraces since 72, and IMO, this is the worst custodian we have had. hearts in the right place, sadly the brains out to lunch.and a Mr W. Kenwright joined the board in 86/87 i believe. make of that what you will.

 

[Matt Damon]

Lol Davek, How old are you mate? Seriously, if you jog your memory back.. we've been in decline since the very late eighties, that's over TWO decades Mate! Which funnily enough was waay before Kenwright got in and before you try to insult me along with others any further I would just like to remind you I stood in the Gwladys Street end to see our last championship winning side, that's how I long I've been an Evertonian. I'm disappointed in you Davek, I always respected your views and thought you were above hurling the ultimate insult.

Feck it, I have had enough..

Don't let it get to you man. You've made some great points today. *Applauds again*

 

[davek]

No mate. You've personally made me laugh. I've added that to the vaults of "Everton are going into adminstration", "Lerner In!" etc etc etc

If I said Villa were boss and were going to dominate the league for the next ten year (which is clearly wrong) would that make me less of a REAL EVERTONIAN then? Or just a liar?

And would it make me less of a REAL EVERTONIAN acknowledging the relative difference in Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle etc to Everton too?



I think you can see, one moment of you spitting that dummy out and the toys out the pram shows precisely your points in this debate.

You're either with us or against us Davek, is what you've always stood for. But you've failed to grasp that you're on an island in the middle of nowhere with that one just as you've always been.

We're better than Villa.

Yeah, whatever.

NSNO.

I can translate that for all the beancounters out there if you like.

 

[Matt Damon]

We're better than Villa.

Yeah, whatever.

NSNO.

I can translate that for all the beancounters out there if you like.

NSNO. "Make sure you keep the woolves from the door, and play football"

Direct translation from the latin. Come on you blues!

 

[sirblue57]

NSNO. "s fromrMake sure you keep the woolve the door, and play football" Direct translation from the latin. Come on you blues!

so theres rodders gone then, ala rooney.

 

[kenada_blue]

Moyes is indeed instrumental to Everton's stability over the past few seasons. Let's not forget that it's the faith shown in Moyes through the rocky periods by the board than enables us to sit here and still laud him for the work he has achieved. Look at the comparisons in the EPL, I would hazard a guess that finishing 17th would have been the end for the manager at many clubs with fan aspirations as lofty as ours. Last season for example, the dismissals of Hughton, Allardyce and (at the time) Hodgson and Di Matteo were questioned loudly by those in the know. Put Moyes in the same boat at the same clubs, he'd have probably been sacked as well. As it is I can genuinely only see him leaving to replace Ferguson at United, such is his draw to Everton in spite of the restrictions he has worked with.

It's this, that in my eyes gives Kenwright some credit. On the other hand...and a much, much bigger hand it is, he and Elstone (who I feel is far more culpable) have indeed failed to capitalise on the commercial potential of Everton. Seemedly nothing in place either, which is a worry. The replacement of the board/Chairman causes instability, the appointment of the right people either to the board OR in key strategic positions within the business would make a huge leap in sorting out the problems.

Don't get too hung up on Arsenal either. They still need to sell £20m of players as season to meet their legendary 'break even' point for sustainability.

Again, if not sacking Moyes is the best thig kenwright has done, he needs to do a lot more.

Yes, he stuck by him but only because Moyes doesn't rock the boat and Bill gives him all the freedom he wants within his means. But don't forget Moyes took his sweet time signing a new contract as he was weighing up his options. He's capable and handles what hes got well

But if he's ambitious hell want to move on as hes limited in his growth here as a manager. So when he eventually goes were going to be gambling on another manager that can operate the same transfer policy a good if not better. That is a big ask.

So if the same transfer policy continues for years to come while we try to expand off the field, we are never going to push on and in fact theres more chance of going backwards.

In light of arsenal...it was used as an example for a model people are saying Everton should adopt to self sustain. My point is that they haven't won anything in 6 years with a better team and better and finances than us. So how hard is that task looking in comparrison?

 

[davek]

Again, if not sacking Moyes is the best thig kenwright has done, he needs to do a lot more.

Yes, he stuck by him but only because Moyes doesn't rock the boat and Bill gives him all the freedom he wants within his means. But don't forget Moyes took his sweet time signing a new contract as he was weighing up his options. He's capable and handles what hes got well

But if he's ambitious hell want to move on as hes limited in his growth here as a manager. So when he eventually goes were going to be gambling on another manager that can operate the same transfer policy a good if not better. That is a big ask.

So if the same transfer policy continues for years to come while we try to expand off the field, we are never going to push on and in fact theres more chance of going backwards.

In light of arsenal...it was used as an example for a model people are saying Everton should adopt to self sustain. My point is that they haven't won anything in 6 years with a better team and better and finances than us. So how hard is that task looking in comparrison?

Says it all about this lot mate that the only strategy they see fit for Everton (and one they'll actually applaud the board of directors for pursuing) is to increase the academy talent pool with the sole purpose of selling them off when the first major bid is made for them. This is what they're reduced to because even they concede after 11 years worth of evidence that the board are devoid of ideas to create fresh revenue streams.

It's almost funny but, of course, isn't anything of the sort.

 

[Matt Damon]

Says it all about this lot mate that the only strategy they see fit for Everton (and one they'll actually applaud the board of directors for pursuing) is to increase the academy talent pool with the sole purpose of selling them off when the first major bid is made for them. This is what they're reduced to because even they concede after 11 years worth of evidence that the board are devoid of ideas to create fresh revenue streams.

It's almost funny but, of course, isn't anything of the sort.

Its almost as funny as "I don't class these sort as REAL EVERTONIANS".

*facepalms*

 

[milks]

Again, if not sacking Moyes is the best thig kenwright has done, he needs to do a lot more.

Yes, he stuck by him but only because Moyes doesn't rock the boat and Bill gives him all the freedom he wants within his means. But don't forget Moyes took his sweet time signing a new contract as he was weighing up his options. He's capable and handles what hes got well

But if he's ambitious hell want to move on as hes limited in his growth here as a manager. So when he eventually goes were going to be gambling on another manager that can operate the same transfer policy a good if not better. That is a big ask.

So if the same transfer policy continues for years to come while we try to expand off the field, we are never going to push on and in fact theres more chance of going backwards.

In light of arsenal...it was used as an example for a model people are saying Everton should adopt to self sustain. My point is that they haven't won anything in 6 years with a better team and better and finances than us. So how hard is that task looking in comparrison?

My point here was to praise Moyes.

Kenwright may or not be the devil incarnate (dependent on your stance), I just think that he needs some proper football administration in place alongside him - be that at CEO or MD level, or via the input of another Board Member able to wake the dormant commercial beastie we all convinced dwells in the basement at Goodison.

My attitude all along has been that a complete boardroom overhaul will do much more harm than good in the short term. We are a football club, therefore the on-field stability we have built through Moyes must be paramount to maintain.

 

[davek]

My point here was to praise Moyes.

Kenwright may or not be the devil incarnate (dependent on your stance), I just think that he needs some proper football administration in place alongside him - be that at CEO or MD level, or via the input of another Board Member able to wake the dormant commercial beastie we all convinced dwells in the basement at Goodison.

My attitude all along has been that a complete boardroom overhaul will do much more harm than good in the short term. We are a football club, therefore the on-field stability we have built through Moyes must be paramount to maintain.

So we keep Moyes in order to stay mid-table. This is the plan?

 

[kenada_blue]

My point here was to praise Moyes.

Kenwright may or not be the devil incarnate (dependent on your stance), I just think that he needs some proper football administration in place alongside him - be that at CEO or MD level, or via the input of another Board Member able to wake the dormant commercial beastie we all convinced dwells in the basement at Goodison.

My attitude all along has been that a complete boardroom overhaul will do much more harm than good in the short term. We are a football club, therefore the on-field stability we have built through Moyes must be paramount to maintain.

No doubt. I personally feel that all the opportunities and increase in any revenue stream has been solely on the back of Moyes and his ability to create those avenues.

Its debatable whether a overhaul is needed because, quite frankly, non of the board invest but all agree and mis-managed a lot in order to progress the club. But Moyes will want to move on if he has ambitions.

Kenwright is not a business man and is advised plenty from outside sources. Whether they have agendas for themselves, I dont know but they're the ones dictating the club and how it moves forward it seems.

But the lack of calculated risks/gambles at prime moments throughout Moyes' management is where the term of lack of ambition comes from. The fact there's no spare £10million from somewhere that could bag a Landon Donovan or a Eden Hazard in consecuative seasons and gamble on a higher league place, exposure in other countries, expand the fanbase and marketting, shows the frustration fans have.

Champions League place. Was never capitalised or pushed on from. The 2009 FA Cup Final. We lost a key defender and made last minute splurges on 3 players - one of which we will see a loss on.

Im not talking about going stupid compared to other teams Damon will no doubt bring up. But you'd think that any of the board would find some small investment every 2 seasons or so and believe in David Moyes.

There's a lot that happens on the back of one signing, it states intent, the unsettled players want to stay, you may finish higher in the league, more TV, European place etc etc a buzz is generated. And as you mentioned, transfer fees are generally not paid up front in one go - so the more you think about it, the less risk it could be rather than invest nothing and finish lower in the league.

The Landon Donovan transfer/non-starter was an absolute balls up of a miss opportunity for example. £10million you get Mr Soccer, you hammer the states, you get his sponsors, you get exposure in the US and increase your fanbase, shirt sales, marketability - almost make 50% of his transfee fee back in shirt sales if it paid off. No one stumped up and put his arse on the line for that, no one backed Moyes to say "he'll make us finish higher" etc.

Compared this to Hernandez at United. £6million. Nailed on 15+ goals per season. Now the entire country of Mexico wear United shirts with his name on that its overtook Barca as the biggest football following over there.

Its those things that hurt. Its those calculated risks on a transfer front that stop progression on the pitch. IMO.