2023/24 Nathan Patterson

[Zatara]

I wonder what instructions they get off the manager.

You'd have been hard pressed today seeing a central midfield pairing from any two of the three.

Fortunately Sheffield Utd never had a player who could destroy a team by occupying that area of the pitch pulling strings.

Onana is given way too much license to roam.

But that’s his game, that’s why I think he needs to work in a central midfield 4 with a defensive midfielder sitting behind him. Of course that means you can’t play ‘wingers’, just 1 off the Centre Forward.

Disrupt in the opposing half mostly.

Then the player himself. I love seeing Onana using his go-go gadget legs to win a ball in a tackle....but his defensive awareness is awful.

Like I say he reminds me of Pogba without the flair. He got the same pelters but had skills that put your bets on him

He works box to box....but I think you need to sacrifice Doucoure to get a better tune.

Like I've said in another thread...you swap Doucoure for a Gibbs White as an example of a player, let Gana sit...you can see how it would get more out them

Sooner or later Dyche is going to have to build the midfield suited to get the best from Onana or he’d be as well selling him.

If he gets fit and gets his head right Dele for Doucoure would suit Onana for that box to box role

It's all comes down to coaching for me. I dont blame the player at all. He's very talented with a big future in the game.

We should be seeing Gueye and Onana as a pair by now. Gueye maybe has to do more on the pitch to achieve that and guide him as the senior player...but it really may be out of his hands. I just dont know if Dyche is encouraging Onana to be mobile about the pitch and gambling.

Patterson / Young = Full backs. Dyche has them coming inside every game so we seem to have 4 centre backs.

Garner / Danjuma = Wide midfielders. Dyche is expecting them to teleport into full back positions when the full backs come inside.

So, unless the wide players are able to sprint back into full back positions faster than a ball can be passed, there are gaps for the opposition to exploit.

This means both Young and Patterson are now 10-20 yards 'behind' the oppositon forward/winger and Garner/Danjuma are 10-20 yards beyond the opposition forward/winger. Who is in alot of space.

The opposition player now has 2 centre backs e.g Patterson/Tarkowski or Young/Branthwaite to be through on goal.

Or pass the ball....

Gana/Onana = DMs but slightly different ones.

Gana is a player who wants to press and Dyche has him playing as a sitting DM more involved in coming back for the ball, receiving and passing + sitting deep for interceptions. But he isnt a sitting DM so he will be moving towards the ball and leaving a big gap between defence and midfield (this has happened every game aside from 2nd half yesterday).

Onana has always been an anchor and so would be the player to sit between defence and midfield. But now hes in a central front foot role and so when he expects Gana behind him as DM, instead he sees a big gap.

Both players now see a huge gap behind them and a gap where the full backs were supposed to be.

So the opposition forward/winger can simply pass to a team mate between midfield and defence who is now 20-30 yards from goal.

The issues are:

Full backs out of position
Wide players tasked to run faster than a ball
Relying on Gana to sit + pass the ball well
Doucoure being closer to a CF than a CM.
Dyche wanting to develop Onana as a CM

Its a shambles and I think if we played players in their actual positions and didnt try to be overly 'tactical' (stupid) we wouldnt have these problems.

 

[coleman=quality]

Patterson / Young = Full backs. Dyche has them coming inside every game so we seem to have 4 centre backs.

Garner / Danjuma = Wide midfielders. Dyche is expecting them to teleport into full back positions when the full backs come inside.

So, unless the wide players are able to sprint back into full back positions faster than a ball can be passed, there are gaps for the opposition to exploit.

This means both Young and Patterson are now 10-20 yards 'behind' the oppositon forward/winger and Garner/Danjuma are 10-20 yards beyond the opposition forward/winger. Who is in alot of space.

The opposition player now has 2 centre backs e.g Patterson/Tarkowski or Young/Branthwaite to be through on goal.

Or pass the ball....

Gana/Onana = DMs but slightly different ones.

Gana is a player who wants to press and Dyche has him playing as a sitting DM more involved in coming back for the ball, receiving and passing + sitting deep for interceptions. But he isnt a sitting DM so he will be moving towards the ball and leaving a big gap between defence and midfield (this has happened every game aside from 2nd half yesterday).

Onana has always been an anchor and so would be the player to sit between defence and midfield. But now hes in a central front foot role and so when he expects Gana behind him as DM, instead he sees a big gap.

Both players now see a huge gap behind them and a gap where the full backs were supposed to be.

So the opposition forward/winger can simply pass to a team mate between midfield and defence who is now 20-30 yards from goal.

The issues are:

Full backs out of position
Wide players tasked to run faster than a ball
Relying on Gana to sit + pass the ball well
Doucoure being closer to a CF than a CM.
Dyche wanting to develop Onana as a CM

Its a shambles and I think if we played players in their actual positions and didnt try to be overly 'tactical' (stupid) we wouldnt have these problems.

So essentially become a back 6? That’s absolutely ridiculous. Where’s the video where he mentions this in I need to hear what he says can you link it? Thanks.

 

[davek]

Patterson / Young = Full backs. Dyche has them coming inside every game so we seem to have 4 centre backs.

Garner / Danjuma = Wide midfielders. Dyche is expecting them to teleport into full back positions when the full backs come inside.

So, unless the wide players are able to sprint back into full back positions faster than a ball can be passed, there are gaps for the opposition to exploit.

This means both Young and Patterson are now 10-20 yards 'behind' the oppositon forward/winger and Garner/Danjuma are 10-20 yards beyond the opposition forward/winger. Who is in alot of space.

The opposition player now has 2 centre backs e.g Patterson/Tarkowski or Young/Branthwaite to be through on goal.

Or pass the ball....

Gana/Onana = DMs but slightly different ones.

Gana is a player who wants to press and Dyche has him playing as a sitting DM more involved in coming back for the ball, receiving and passing + sitting deep for interceptions. But he isnt a sitting DM so he will be moving towards the ball and leaving a big gap between defence and midfield (this has happened every game aside from 2nd half yesterday).

Onana has always been an anchor and so would be the player to sit between defence and midfield. But now hes in a central front foot role and so when he expects Gana behind him as DM, instead he sees a big gap.

Both players now see a huge gap behind them and a gap where the full backs were supposed to be.

So the opposition forward/winger can simply pass to a team mate between midfield and defence who is now 20-30 yards from goal.

The issues are:

Full backs out of position
Wide players tasked to run faster than a ball
Relying on Gana to sit + pass the ball well
Doucoure being closer to a CF than a CM.
Dyche wanting to develop Onana as a CM

Its a shambles and I think if we played players in their actual positions and didnt try to be overly 'tactical' (stupid) we wouldnt have these problems.

This is where Dyche's 'shuffle and slide' comes into play...theoretically. The FBs should be looking for the body language of an opposition 'Quarterback' who'll 'fire a pass' out wide and they have to get themselves out there to face up a wide player.

I know.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

He has great potential

Given his age, Coleman was out on loan to Blackpool the age Patterson is now. Susceptible to injuires is the concern I have.

 

[Rugby Toffee]

In two minds about Patterson. I think there is a decent player there, but I feel he is trying to hard to be the complete fullback and not concentrating on improving on the basics.

 

[Zatara]

So essentially become a back 6? That’s absolutely ridiculous. Where’s the video where he mentions this in I need to hear what he says can you link it? Thanks.

Masterclass or something on youtube.

Idk what else to call it but we see the full backs coming inside as additional centre backs dont we?

Then we see the wide players coming back but too late to get in front of the opposition attacker(s).

Yesterday we saw 1st half(like every game) the exact same gaps at full back with them both well inside. Plus Gana out of position all half leaving space.

In two minds about Patterson. I think there is a decent player there, but I feel he is trying to hard to be the complete fullback and not concentrating on improving on the basics.

His defensive stats were shown on here last season and he was making some cracking attacking runs.

Now it looks like hes confused with the system. Could put that down to age, but Young is the same.

 

[DualityNSNO]

His defensive stats were shown on here last season and he was making some cracking attacking runs.

Now it looks like hes confused with the system. Could put that down to age, but Young is the same.

I have an idea why - he's played with a player out of position ahead of him who keeps drifting in so he has no cover and the team isn't set up to cover like that anyway as we push up as a narrow unit and leave full backs isolated. It's suicide ball waiting to happen again, and it will happen, regardless of who the FB's are. Dyche only compensates and stacks those areas when the players are slow, like Young or Coleman for example, where they sit back more. If you ask Patterson to be half a winger and to run himself ragged yeah he'll get exposed inevitably, same as any full back.

Also he genuinely looked better last season with someone who was willing to track back or at least stay out wide (Iwobi for example) and a team willing to work with him, but people can't seem to understand why shoehorning a CM as a winger is bad...

...and want to shoehorn that same CM as a right back oddly enough lol

 

[Zatara]

I have an idea why - he's played with a player out of position ahead of him who keeps drifting in so he has no cover and the team isn't set up to cover like that anyway as we push up as a narrow unit and leave full backs isolated. It's suicide ball waiting to happen again, and it will happen, regardless of who the FB's are. Dyche only compensates and stacks those areas when the players are slow, like Young or Coleman for example, where they sit back more. If you ask Patterson to be half a winger and to run himself ragged yeah he'll get exposed inevitably, same as any full back.

Also he genuinely looked better last season with someone who was willing to track back or at least stay out wide (Iwobi for example) and a team willing to work with him, but people can't seem to understand why shoehorning a CM as a winger is bad...

...and want to shoehorn that same CM as a right back oddly enough lol

When posters said about Garner playing RB it sounded mad.

RM though makes sense on paper but in reality he's got no positional experience (or coaching i think) there.

So Patterson is stuffed. But the negative tactics of having him move inside are insane as well...as is Gana at DM.

Dyche needs to sort this out for Arsenal.

 

[DualityNSNO]

When posters said about Garner playing RB it sounded mad.

RM though makes sense on paper but in reality he's got no positional experience (or coaching i think) there.

So Patterson is stuffed. But the negative tactics of having him move inside are insane as well...as is Gana at DM.

Dyche needs to sort this out for Arsenal.

Was happening yesterday as well - Patterson receives the ball and he's the only one on that entire side as Garner's moved central - damned if he does damned if he doesn't in that situation, as staying back means we're lopsided going forward, going forward means we're overly exposed on the right.

Now that's not a criticism to Garner, he's great, love him, but a winger he's 1000000% not. Nor is he a right back.

Hope we play a winger on the wing for a change and Garner in the middle soon enough really, frustrating to watch - even more frustrating to see Danjuma sit out wider and Young having an out ball even though he takes a cosmic age to get forward - it allows him to do so and go back with the risk minimised.

 

[davek]

I have an idea why - he's played with a player out of position ahead of him who keeps drifting in so he has no cover and the team isn't set up to cover like that anyway as we push up as a narrow unit and leave full backs isolated. It's suicide ball waiting to happen again, and it will happen, regardless of who the FB's are. Dyche only compensates and stacks those areas when the players are slow, like Young or Coleman for example, where they sit back more. If you ask Patterson to be half a winger and to run himself ragged yeah he'll get exposed inevitably, same as any full back. Also he genuinely looked better last season with someone who was willing to track back or at least stay out wide (Iwobi for example) and a team willing to work with him, but people can't seem to understand why shoehorning a CM as a winger is bad......and want to shoehorn that same CM as a right back oddly enough lol

"Oddly enough".

He plays there for his country.

 

[bilyaletdinov_]

If yesterday is indicative of McNeil playing RW this season then I am hoping he and Patterson will be able to form a strong partnership down that side - McNeil does a lot of defensive work and by cutting inside would open up a lot of space for Patterson to get some crosses in

 

[gonetomorrow]

Patterson did ok eventually.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Hopefully get's some decent game time for Scotland over the break. Think he needs to be on the pitch as much as possible personally.

 

[Simon Buttle]

"Oddly enough".

He plays there for his country.

He played there in 1 tournament due to a number of injuries the squad had, when everyone is fit he won't play there again Dave. It was also an u21 tournament not the England first 11 so hardly top level football.

 

[davek]

He played there in 1 tournament due to a number of injuries the squad had, when everyone is fit he won't play there again Dave. It was also an u21 tournament not the England first 11 so hardly top level football.

My point was that if he's played there 5 or 6 times it isn't 'odd' that he's being suggested for that position. It would be 'odd' if he;d never player there before.